Dithering to the Extreme

[Matloughe]

Hello Everyone!

 

I hope you're all well at this uncertain time; having been furloughed after a period of enforced working from home I have managed to set up my fledgling 00 Gauge layout I had been planning in the Garage - an LBSCR based terminus loosely based on Devils' Dyke. However I've hit a snag - despite it electrically working; the DCC system appears to be dead - not the controller but the majority of the chips in the locomotives and I am not really wanting to invest in replacement of the chips so I suspect they will be returned to DC operation.

However the other perhaps more pertinent issue is that after such a long time (the layout was commenced in 2013) it no-longer holds my interest and it feels a little bit like trying to breathe life into a dead horse. Now I have long been interested in the 'Senior Scale' not surprising as I was in the 'Senior Service' for a time as well ;-) 
I have for a long time a thread in the 7mm section about moving up to 7mm scale but it sort of fizzled out with moving house; having offspring, changing jobs etc - basically normal life got in the way.

 

I currently have a 10.5 foot by 1 foot layout broken down into a 7 foot scenic section and a 3.5 foot fiddle-yard board what I am dithering over is do I bring my 00 gauge layout back to boards & track to refurbish it or should I just take the plunge and sell off my 00 equipment that is of no interest (I have an eclectic collection) and use the funds to start an O Gauge layout - which is what I think I really want as I only tend to linger on Southern Railway/Southern Electric layouts in 00/N but I'll sit fascinated at any O Gauge layout I find. 

 

So if you're still here after the above preamble, is there any viable way of using my existing boards for O gauge - I am looking to build a end of the line Branch Line Terminus; with a light railway sort of feel - a Terrier puttering along with a handful of wagons and guards van, or a mixed train of a single carriage and wagon or two.
I've been inspired by the rebuilt Trebudoc, Badgers Oak, Goonhilly and Godshill amongst others. I am more than happy to build new boards if needed - but my woodworking skills aren't great and I am keen to reuse whatever I can lay my hands on to keep costs down.

I think I've come to the conclusion that I would rather have a much smaller collection of items that I really want and will use rather than my current mix & match of anything that took my fancy in 00 gauge. I apologise for the ramblings - i've come to the conclusion that if I have to build boards that I should build an even number of them so that they can be bolted face-to-face for storage/transport in the future and have integral legs - something my current boards are unable to do. I have full use of the length of a normal 16 foot garage but any layout movement/assembly would need to be undertaken by myself alone so perhaps pushing it out to 12 feet by 2 feet wide as an absolute maximum.

 

Please send help & sanity!!!
Kind Regards,

Gary

[Harlequin]

Hi Gary,

 

An interesting question arises from your post, which might get to the heart of your problem: Why does the bigger scale alone hold your interest? Imagine the exact same subject modelled in O and OO. Why would the OO one fail for you?

 

If there's a clear answer to that then maybe the decision of which way to go will be easier. It might be that your OO work wasn't focused and that simply narrowing down what you want to do, like you'd have to with an O gauge layout, would equally help get the OO going again.

 

Regarding baseboards: You could buy laser-cut kits to save the time and trouble of making your own. They would be neatly modular, lightweight, accurate and could be made to bolt back to back fairly easily. You'd have to investigate legs.

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Harlequin

[ITG]

On a similar theme to that raised by Harlequin, maybe you should get to the bottom of why all the DCC chips appear to have failed? Not having functioning locos is a pretty big turn-off, and tempting to “bin and restart” when you haven’t been near the layout. Possibly a case of “baby out with the bath water!”

In the space available, there could be quite a difference in what could be achieved with a layout in 0 v 00 - not that that should put you off 0, but more that you should distil your thoughts about what you want from the layout, and then perhaps determine how best to achieve that.

 

bTW, I’ve just opted for modular kit built baseboards, in my case to overcome my own carpentry shortcomings. Ordered but not yet received, but impressed with the many conversations I have had with the supplier. But they are relatively expensive, but then so was my current layout baseboard when it took time, money and isn’t fit for purpose!

 

Good luck.

[DCB]

A 7ft long OO BLT with a 3ft FY is not going to be very interesting to operate. Its a great size to build as a diorama with net curtains, sofas. cats telegraph poles, LED lights, smoking chimneys, sound effects etc but operationally  there are only a few permutations of locos and stock before it all seems very much like groundhog day, especially if it has kick back sidings which can only be shunted in one very strict set procedure.  We have one as the garden terminus, barely started scenically but fortunately ours has 20 feet available as a headshunt which makes a huge difference.   Ergo a 16 ft O gauge layout will have the same issues.

A 16 ft / 7ft/ 16ft  U shape round the garage in O is a whole different ball game.

As is a 7ft OO BLT with a 5ft FY and a 4ft scenic section with a valley, a viaduct, etc.

If you stick to a certain region and period and run stock with some purpose, Coal wagons from Lydney, possibly, on a ten day circuit,  some passenger trains from the junction, some from further afield,   Different locos turning up for a reason, then it seems like a real miniature world, rather than Flying Scotsman on the 3 coach CRE with a 2 car HST in the bay.

 

[HillsideDepot]

Building on Harlequin's post, I nearly went down the O gauge route when the Dapol 08 appeared. I would have been restricted to a very small layout, probably an Inglenook type shunting puzzle, but the extra size and presence of O was a real temptation. Something bigger, where each of the few items of rolling stock could be really detailed and weathered was a temptation. When the 08 appeared there were a few things about it I was less than keen on, and I dithered until prices went up (I think there was an initial offer from Dapol) and then the ones I was interested in sold out. Do I regret it? No. When it comes down to it, as much as the bigger size has its attraction, and does allow some extra detail, in essence I could take any one of my fleet of Hornby 08s and super-detail that, and take a small number of my numerous wagons and do likewise. For me a change of scale didn't actually offer anything different and, I suppose, I ultimately built Drew's Siding as my small shunting puzzle, a mini layout with a small rolling stock requirement that I enjoyed building and have fun operating from time to time.

 

Likewise, a few years back there were some excellent deals on SR 2-car EMUs. I did some research, learning much more than I previously knew about HALs, BILs, EPBs and so on, scoured the shop websites for the best prices of the different variations and drew numerous layout plans. But I never actually bought the models, as attractive as they are. Why? Because I eventually realised that a pretty 2-car EMU offers nothing more, to me, than a utilitarian class 150 Sprinter, or rundown class 108 DMU, of which I have had several in stock, unused, for a number of years (and diesels save me modelling a 3rd rail, coward that I am). 

It is easy to be tempted by something new, and there is nothing wrong with following that route, but going back to basics is important. What do you want? What will satisfy you? Only you can answer that. For some it is having sounds, lights and as perfect as possible detail in each train, but they are quite happy to run a 2020's Hitachi Azuma alongside a pre-Grouping something or other, so long as each train is perfect in itself. Conversely, I've heard it said (long ago now)  that some would be happy to use tennis balls as trains, so long as the layout was correctly signalled, fully interlocked and the tennis balls carried the correct lamps front and rear. Neither of those examples suits me, and if what does suit me suits no one but me, so what? It must be your layout, done your way.

I wish you well in your deliberations, Gary, and don't forget there is no compulsion to have a working layout. I'm finding great enjoyment in mixing some Wills kits together with a few scratch built buildings to make several dioramas. Nothing to do with railways, although all could potentially be incorporated into a larger layout, but complete in themselves, and fun to build.

[jonny777]

I get the feeling that you have already made up your mind, but just want the reassurance that you will not regret your decision. Unfortunately with a forum as disparate as this, there are going to be an infinite number of ideas on your best next move. 

 

However, many of those will be closely linked to what the individual poster would do with your available space. Personally, I believe that if you are getting enthusiastic about the idea of a small country BLT in 7mm then go for it. Sell off your 4mm stock and take the plunge. After all, if you don't like it, you could always sell the 7mm stock in the future and try something else. 

 

I'm sure you could probably stretch to 2'6" width for a short distance, or even 3ft, and use a small pair of collapsible kitchen steps when it is necessary to reach the far corner. Remember that in 7mm everything is going to be much larger and therefore somewhat easier to handle with an outstretched arm. 

 

I am a great believer in following your inspired imagination, because if you let it stagnate there is a real possibility of losing interest completely. 

 

Good luck with whatever you decide, and please show us some photos as your ideas develop. 

[woodenhead]

35 minutes ago, HillsideDepot said:

Likewise, a few years back there were some excellent deals on SR 2-car EMUs. I did some research, learning much more than I previously knew about HALs, BILs, EPBs and so on, scoured the shop websites for the best prices of the different variations and drew numerous layout plans. But I never actually bought the models, as attractive as they are. Why? Because I eventually realised that a pretty 2-car EMU offers nothing more, to me, than a utilitarian class 150 Sprinter, or rundown class 108 DMU, of which I have had several in stock, unused, for a number of years (and diesels save me modelling a 3rd rail, coward that I am). 
 

How well I know this - my BLT with Southern engines had a purpose and there was shunting as well as running around the service trains.  Then I got mixed up in Southern units - EPB, HAL, BIL, CEP, VEP, Thumper and a 33 - it was when I was looking at a green class 71 with full yellow ends that I realised they weren't doing it for me.  Units go in, then they go back out - fine if there is other stuff to do but if that's it then very quickly you end up becoming very bored.

[Matloughe]

Thank you all for your input.

I think the attraction of the larger scale goes back to my first exhibition I went to - my mother had a friend at work who was the security guard in an office block - and I remember going whilst she cleaned the offices and being left with the security guard - he would solder some of his locomotive together then go on a patrol and return to his desk and solder something else on - that wonderful intoxicating smell of Solder, Flux and hot metal. Anyway I digress we went to Scaleforum South at Leatherhead Leisure centre and I was presented with I think it was Ditchling Green and I was mesmerised by this layout - I already was enthralled about the LB&SCR at this young age and looked out for ex LBSC infrastructure wherever we went as I lived in the heart of their former territory.  

Even today I will linger on any LBSC layout observing fascinated. 

 

I feel the larger scale offers a presence that the smaller ones do not; they move more realistically and I dare say more reliably - bad running is a bug bear of mine especially at an exhibition; it is inevitable with small motors, electricity and dust/debris but too often it is the same hand of god pushing stuff around on layouts. Perhaps its the higher mass of the larger scale which seemingly provides the illusion that they run better also when kit building I've noticed the larger kits go together easier than a smaller one. 

 

Perhaps I am seeking the approval of others as to ratify my idea - I know my other half is sick of hearing about train related conversations :-)

 

Kind Regards,

Gary

 

[mdvle]

 

54 minutes ago, Matloughe said:

I feel the larger scale offers a presence that the smaller ones do not; they move more realistically and I dare say more reliably - bad running is a bug bear of mine especially at an exhibition; it is inevitable with small motors, electricity and dust/debris but too often it is the same hand of god pushing stuff around on layouts. Perhaps its the higher mass of the larger scale which seemingly provides the illusion that they run better also when kit building I've noticed the larger kits go together easier than a smaller one.

 

A well built and well maintained layout will work reliably regardless of scale, and the reverse is true - a poorly built/poorly maintained layout will need frequent "hand of god" regardless of scale.

 

Perhaps a good first start (and quite cheap) would be to come up with a plan that you think you would like and then go to the Peco website, download and print out the turnouts you need.   Mark out your baseboard dimensions and play around with the paper track to try and get a visual indication if you like the look, use an empty box/book/etc. as an engine and try "operating".

 

All of this is a cheap way to see if there is anything obvious you aren't going to like, to see if you can be happy with what you can actually fit in the space you have.

 

It can also be a cheap way to see if, using the same basic location/idea, you prefer what OO allows you to fit.

 

Peco - O - https://peco-uk.com/collections/turn-out-crossing-plans/o-32mm

 

Peco - OO - https://peco-uk.com/collections/turn-out-crossing-plans/oo-ho-16-5mm

 

[Harlequin]

44 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

 

A well built and well maintained layout will work reliably regardless of scale, and the reverse is true - a poorly built/poorly maintained layout will need frequent "hand of god" regardless of scale.

 

Absolutely, and this is an area where DCC ought to help out, with clever motor control and stay alive circuits.

 

44 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

Perhaps a good first start (and quite cheap) would be to come up with a plan that you think you would like and then go to the Peco website, download and print out the turnouts you need.   Mark out your baseboard dimensions and play around with the paper track to try and get a visual indication if you like the look, use an empty box/book/etc. as an engine and try "operating".

 

All of this is a cheap way to see if there is anything obvious you aren't going to like, to see if you can be happy with what you can actually fit in the space you have.

 

It can also be a cheap way to see if, using the same basic location/idea, you prefer what OO allows you to fit.

 

Peco - O - https://peco-uk.com/collections/turn-out-crossing-plans/o-32mm

 

Peco - OO - https://peco-uk.com/collections/turn-out-crossing-plans/oo-ho-16-5mm

 

 

You can, of course, do something similar in a computer without the need for a large flat surface and with more accurate alignment of parts than you could achieve with paper.

 

[Matloughe]

I have a couple of plans in my head I've been working on - with an overall constraint of 9 feet end to end and two feet in width. However I may well permit myself an additional three feet to keep any future layout as four boards that can be bolted together to form a box structure for storage.

I have played on AnyRail; and with my Ixion Hudswell Clarke and some O gauge wagons on the little bit of Peco track I have to get a 'feel' for what I want. 

That I think is the most important thing I have taken away from the conversation today - I need to decide what it is I want in a layout and go from there.

 

I know I want to focus on realistic operation; even if its a fictional location. To have an accurate track plan for the era depicted, accurate signalling etc my current 00 layout features some rudimentary electrical interlocking on the Peco lever frame to ensure points are 'locked' into a position - that is something I'd like to expand upon.

 

Kind Regards,

Gary 

[Matloughe]

Hello All!!

 

Having gone away and thought about it and re-reading others comments I've decided to build some sort of operable diorama for 7mm scale using what I have to hand currently.

 

Which currently is three yards of flexi track, a settrack straight my Hudswell Clarke and assorted wagons with my spare 4x1 board which was the fiddleyard for Bishops Park. The vague plan is to use the settrack straight as a cassette and lay two sidings in a similar fashion to Lyddlow Goods. Not planning anything fancy just a simple introductory diorama.

 

I spent some time on the 00 layout with my note book creating a list of work to bring it up to scratch and I tested decoders out of my eight DCC fitted locos only two work it looks like dead chips as all models work on DC power so that's something!!

 

Kind Regards,

Gary

Edited May 17, 2020 by Matloughe