Another track mod thread

[swiftbeam]

Hi,

 

I have a little project on the go right now, that is to replace these split rails from my O gauge points and replace them with full length rail. I have slipped in the longer length rail from the point just to see how hard it is to flex one rail, and it is fine, only one rail will ever be bent at any one time and the straight rail will help with pulling the bent rail, so I'm sure it will all be fine.

 

I'm also going to be taking resin castings of full sleepers, removing the guff I don't want, fixing the sleepers and making up some more scale like rods etc. 

 

So my question is, it seems that all the moving rails are joined by a welded wire, so can I cut off the little plastic separator, butt up the new full rail and solder it to the existing rail that forms part of the frog?

 

By doing this, my new full length rail can't slide down. I want to try and create an O gauge streamline point like the new type 00 gauge points :-) 

So far, it's looking very doable :-)

 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by swiftbeam

[brossard]

I hesitate to get involved with this kind of discussion because I know just enough to be dangerous.  It is not clear to me where you are going with your replacement of the closure rail.  I don't think it is necessary.

 

I do think the switch end of Peco turnouts if pretty awful and I have modified some to correct that:

 

 

On the RH turnout, I completely removed the timbers and moulding around the switch and installed new timbers and chairs (Peco).

 

(It is probably worthwhile, even if you don't plan to build your own turnouts, to buy in some Peco timbers, running and slide chairs for projects like this.  Antics have these.)

 

I also installed new tie bars (MM1 models) and re spaced the blades to a more reasonable gap.

 

If you look closely I installed cast brass fishplates to represent the loose heel and soldered them in place.  (These are Exactoscale and now available, as I understand, from S7 Society).  I think the regular rail joiners are operationally fine but don't look as good of course.

 

I have noted that the joiners that Peco use to connect the blades to closure rail are loose.  To me this is a weakness because it is not best practice to rely on loose contact for continuity.  I have soldered these on all my turnouts.  I'm using Tortoise motors so I believe they have the muscle to move them.

 

Nothing magic about how Peco have wired their turnouts.  If you plan to use DCC, you will want to snip the connection between the crossing and closure rails so that the crossing is isolated and polarity can be switched.  If you want to wire the turnout yourself, remove the plastic under the rail and solder new wire under the rail (so it can't be seen).

 

Wiring is simple, one wire to each of the stock rails and jumpers from stock rail to closure rail.  The soldered joiner will provide continuity to the blades.  Solder a wire under the crossing to connect to your polarity switching device.

 

Have I totally missed your, ahem, point?

 

John

Edited May 28, 2020 by brossard

[swiftbeam]

No, you've not missed at all, I think you have all the answers I need, thank you :-)

 

I had no idea I could buy sleepers and chairs to match what is there.

I think your blade rodding looks awesome and I will copy it!

Do you have a close up?

Once this lock down is lifted, I'll drive up to Blaenavon preserved Railway and study their points.

 

I can't say I fully understand how to wire for DCC and it will be DCC, so I need to understand.

 

Thanks.

[brossard]

OK, glad to have been of help.

 

How is this?:

 

 

You will need a pack of these:

 

 

They say you can use double sided tape to stick the two halves together.  I used thin double copper clad strip.

 

Number 1 rule for DCC is to solder dropper wires at every piece of track.  Don't rely on rail joiners to carry the voltage.

 

Run a buss along the length of the layout and solder the droppers to that.  Connect power and you're off.

 

John

[Simond]

I used a fag paper & Araldite.

 

I wholly agree about wiring the closure rails to the adjacent stock rails 

 

isolate the frog in 4 places (ie both rails both ends), and fit that to the polarity changer of your choice.  
 

works for DC and DCC.  

 

And clockwork & radio control

 

atb

Simon

[brossard]

30 minutes ago, Simond said:

I used a fag paper & Araldite.

 

 

 

I daresay the glue methods will work.  I just prefer more mechanical fixings.

 

John

[swiftbeam]

Are the replacement sleepers and chairs the same as what comes moulded onto the point, so all adjustments are seamless?

[34006]

I get all my bits from C & L,who has provided a fair turnround in these uncertain times.Plus on the web site there are various pictures that are helpful,and don't forget Templot either as another source.

 

atb

Phil.

 

PS see also do it yourself points.

Edited May 28, 2020 by 34006

[Happy Hippo]

7 minutes ago, swiftbeam said:

Are the replacement sleepers and chairs the same as what comes moulded onto the point, so all adjustments are seamless?

Depending on which sleepers you intend to replace, you may have to be clever inserting new chairs onto rail already held in place by other sleepers and chairs.

 

Remember that on most turnouts some in the vicinity of the stretcher bar that drove the blades were extended so the operating cranks could be secured to them.

 

Once you've completed all the modifications, realised how simple it is and then looked at the price of the PECO offering as opposed to the raw materiel, and you'll see why so many 7 mm modellers make their own points and crossings. 

[brossard]

The Peco pack of timbers are all long so need to be cut to suit.  Running chairs can be threaded on the rail and bonded to the timbers using MEK or Butanone (these are identical btw).  You should have a couple of roller gauges to ensure gauge is maintained.

 

Here's a pic of some of the stuff I'm talking about:

 

 

On the left are a pack of Peco timbers, then some slide chairs.  Roller gauges, flangeway gauge above that and Butanone.  Running chairs on the right.

 

C&L products are great and I used to buy these all the time.  However, since the change in ownership I am not sure about getting stuff over here as Phil seems to concentrate on shows, which are a non starter for me.  Maybe things have changed.

 

I find Peco products more than adequate and are easy to get.

 

John

 

 

[Happy Hippo]

55 minutes ago, Simond said:

I used a fag paper & Araldite.

I had problems with that, so took advice from one of the Scale 7 contingent.

 

I now use cuttings from old envelopes and Powerbond. (It's also quicker!)

[swiftbeam]

Well I had no idea Peco sell all the items you need to make a point

 

So does a hand built Peco point look better and cost less?

Forget the time !

[brossard]

Certainly costs less and, if you are careful, looks good too:

 

 

The turnout in the middle is Peco with modified tiebars.  The others are built on the same template.  The handbuilt examples have wooden timbers from Intentio.

 

I have left the paper backing on for strength since slide chair timbers can come off.

 

I found that it takes some practice to get turnouts looking good and working correctly.  I actually used the Peco T/O on my layout but all the others are hand built.

 

John

[34006]

Hi John,at the moment there are no shows so 10 days or so turnaround is not bad ATC.

 

Phil

[brossard]

1 minute ago, 34006 said:

Hi John,at the moment there are no shows so 10 days or so turnaround is not bad ATC.

 

Phil

 

Are you C&L Phil?

 

John

[34006]

No. Different Phil,just a satisfied customer,not living in London!

[brossard]

LMAO, that makes sense, I wouldn't think C&L Phil has time to hang around here.

 

In any case all my turnouts are built and I have a healthy collection of spares owing to indecision.  Had I bought all Peco, I'd be in the poor house now.

 

John

 

 

[swiftbeam]

I've just had a look on the C&L website to look at track options, and I can't see any of the pictures that show the products. Is it just me?

[brossard]

LOL, it may be you:  https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/online-store/7mm-c32279084

 

I bought a turnout kit when I was starting out.  It contains rail, blades, pre-assembled crossing and chairs.  Also some roller gauges, template and instructions.  It is not a bad thing to get if you are new but these are pretty expensive.  Handbuilt turnouts are least costly if the builder makes his own crossings and files blades.

 

BTW, this outfit looks good although I haven't tried them yet:  https://greenwoodmodelrailwayproducts.co.uk/

 

John

[swiftbeam]

Thank you Brossard, you have really helped.

 

This is all I see on the C&L site on my standard Mac laptop running normal stuff, never seen this problem before ?

 

 

[brossard]

I never had a Mac so I guess no, I have never seen it.  Is Adobe Flash relevant to Mac?   Sometimes, if I do have the odd issue, updating that helps.

 

John

[swiftbeam]

 

It would be nice to be able to see the products they sell as I think it would be of interest to me.

Edited May 28, 2020 by swiftbeam

[Simond]

If it’s any help, there are quite a few photos of track building in the first dozen pages on my Porth Dinllaen thread.  
 

I’ve built all my track from C&L components, I file up and solder my own crossings from rail.  it’s much cheaper than commercially available track, and also allows me to use 31.5 0M-F track standards, which improves running and appearance.  The latter may be subjective, the running is objectively better.

 

hth

Simon

[brossard]

54 minutes ago, swiftbeam said:

 

It would be nice to be able to see the products they sell as I think it would be of interest to me.

 

Type your problem into the search box.  You may get useful troubleshooting advice.

 

John

[Hal Nail]

12 hours ago, swiftbeam said:

I can't say I fully understand how to wire for DCC and it will be DCC, so I need to understand.

I think this is pretty critical. If you start modifying a point before you know exactly how the electrics need to work there is a high chance of ending up with a short somewhere and if its something like a break needed in a rail, you cant easily add that after you've built it.