Davey Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) I am looking at the possibility of purchasing a 4 CIG EMU kit from Peter Clark Models, but prior to purchasing the kit I contacted Peter, who very kindly e-mailed me pictures of the kit etches together with pictures of a finished model. My aim is to super detail the kit, and to this end I have spent many hours trawling through NRM drawing records to find drawings of standard MK 1 coaches and Phase 1 4 CIG units. I have paid particular attention to the Derby Carriage & Wagon drawing lists and the Southern Railway drawing lists, but with no success as yet. Given that there is a wealth of knowledge within the membership of RMWeb, I am making this appeal for help, to see if anyone can indicate where I might locate original G. A’s for MK 1 coaches together with G.A’s of the 4 CIG’s Davey Edited July 22, 2020 by Davey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Have you tried the HMRS ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 Hi Wickham Green, I Have looked through the HMRS list but was unable to find anything of use, but I will revisit their site. Many thanks, Davey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 To the Moderator. I have inadvertently posted this in the wrong section, intending to post it in the UK Prototype Questions section. I would be grateful if you could move it to that section for me. Many thanks, Davey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Davey said: Hi Wickham Green, I Have looked through the HMRS list but was unable to find anything of use, but I will revisit their site. Many thanks, Davey The BR Coaching Stock Steward might be able to track down details that went into the Mk1 Coaches Bible ...... unfortunately the Multiple Units Steward's position is vacant at present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 Hi Wickham, thanks for that piece of information, very useful. Many thanks, Davey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 I have a recollection that these units, along with many others for the Southern, may have been built at York. Are there any drawing indexes for York carriage works? Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted July 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 23, 2020 IIRC the DMS coaches for the last four REP units 3012-15, were the last mk1 vehicles built (1974). For all the REPs, the DMS were new but all trailer coaches (and the 4TCs) were converted from loco-hauled coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share Posted July 23, 2020 Hi Jim, As you correctly say, the units were built at York. Unfortunately, during my extensive searches, I have found no drawing indexes for York Carriage works. I think it was the case, that York merely worked to designs originating from the major design offices, in this case Derby, who were responsible for the design of the MK 1 coaches. Also, I would have expected one of the Southern Region works to have had some input in the 4 CIG design, but my searches have turned up nothing. Regards, Davey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arun Sharma Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 (edited) I produced some 7mm scale etches for 4-CEP/BEP/CIG units using Brian Golding's "A Pictorial Record of Southern Electric Units - Drawings & Plans" ISBN 978-1-906419-34-9, Published by Noodle Books - presumably now taken over by Crecy Publications. May be exactly what you need. Edited July 23, 2020 by Arun Sharma Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Steve Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) If you search for "SW/DE" then it pulls up one for a general arrangement of a CK coach. https://www.railwaymuseum.org.uk/sites/default/files/2018-04/Derby Carriage %26 Wagon Drawings List.pdf Edited July 27, 2020 by SP Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 9 hours ago, Arun Sharma said: I produced some 7mm scale etches for 4-CEP/BEP/CIG units using Brian Golding's "A Pictorial Record of Southern Electric Units - Drawings & Plans" .......... I can't comment on the veracity of Golding's Mk1 drawings - but some of his Southern efforts certainly contain major errors. ( I've no idea what HIS sources were.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithHC Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 There are I believe some problems with the CIG/BIG drawings in the Goulde book. The late Colin Parks advised me that the spacing of the guards doors where incorrect. The advice was to use Mike Kings drawings as they are much better. Also worth looking up some of Colin's builds a true master sadly not with us anymore. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike hughes Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 I asked the HMRS for a CIG style end and the best they had was a diagram for a 4-VEP. i’ve Looked through the listed drawing registers at the NRM and found nothing related, in fact very little for any BR DMU/EMU’s Michael. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 Unfortunately, I haven't been able to spend much time on RMWeb recently, so I need to reply to the useful replies that have been posted since my last post on Thursday 23rd July, and to say thank you to all that have posted on this topic since then. I will now reply to posts in the order that they were posted: Arun Sharma - Thanks for the reference to Brian Golding's "A Pictorial Record of Southern Electric Units - Drawings & Plans", which looked like a useful lead, until I read the posts by Wickham Green and Keith HC, which seemed to question the accuracy of the drawings in Brian Golding's book. It is for that reason that I always prefer to work from official BR drawings wherever possible. SP Steve - I followed your instructions for searching through the Derby Carriage & Wagon Works Drawing lists but my research revealed nothing relevant, but that could be down to me and not your instructions. Mike Hughes - As I understand it, the 4CIG and 4VEP cab ends were identical in terms of end elevation and side elevation, so that promises to be a useful lead, so I will be contacting the HMRS, that is if they are responding to enquiries at this difficult time. Again many thanks for everyone's input, - the search continues. Davey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 11 hours ago, Davey said: ....... Mike Hughes - As I understand it, the 4CIG and 4VEP cab ends were identical in terms of end elevation and side elevation, so that promises to be a useful lead, so I will be contacting the HMRS, that is if they are responding to enquiries at this difficult time. ....... Don't forget the HMRS - like all such organisations - is a group of individuals ( I nearly said 'bunch of amateurs' - but that would be extremely unfair ) who would be answering your request in - what should be - their spare time ......... at this difficult time they might actually have more time to spare .... but they might be receiving more enquiries too ! They'd always look on your request more favourably, of course, if you joined the Society. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 Thanks for that Wickham. Davey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Steve Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 19 hours ago, Davey said: SP Steve - I followed your instructions for searching through the Derby Carriage & Wagon Works Drawing lists but my research revealed nothing relevant, but that could be down to me and not your instructions. Try and search for "08/12/1955" - the drawing number is: Roll = 75 Box = 51 Prefix = X Drawing Number = 252 Title = Standard Coach. General Arrangement. Corridor Composite There was a 7mm pull out plan in the December 1986 edition of "Model Railways" which showed a GA drawing from Swindon Works C&W drawing office depicting a Mk1 FK - this was originally drawn by Mr K. E. Frankling dated November 1950, drawing reference SC/SW/225. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 Hi SP Steve, Many thanks for that update. I will follow your instructions to see what I can find. Many thanks, Davey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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