Triang Jinty driving wheel falls off

[DK123GWR]

I have recently aquired an R.052 Jinty with a screw in the chimney and couplings which resemble tension locks, but have a different hook design and a bar which is only connected to the body on the left hand side. I believe that this makes it a Trinag model manufactured between 1955 and 1960. Service sheet 2 appears to match the model. I have corrected a few electrical issues and have put it on the track to test it. However, whenever it runs the flangeless centre wheel (which appears to be the driven one) and the coupling rod (which is screwed to the wheel) on the right hand side keep falling off. Does anyone have an idea for a quick and cheap fix? I am considering putting a single layer of electrician's tape around the axle to increase its diameter. Should I just try that?

Thanks for the advice.

[hayfield]

Loctite would be best, buy a cheaper alternative super glue, or 2 part epoxy or one of the modern glues like no more nails/Gorilla glue

 

[Les Bird]

Is that the same side as the pickups? If so it could be that the plastic bush in the wheel centre has deteriorated. Peter's Spares stock them.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Les Bird

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Long term exposure to an inappropriate lubricant can degrade the plastic bush to the strength of chewing gum per @Les Bird above. I would replace the whole lot if this is the case.

[Brit70053]

The plastic bushes are cut into by splines on the axle and in some cases in the centre of the wheel into which it is inserted when first fitted and it isn't possible to replace the bush in any other position once its been removed. Some have been known to try to achieve this however, resulting in the plastic bush being  deformed and  rendered useless.  Replacement of the bush would be the only solution and every effort should be made to get the quartering correct at the first attempt, otherwise the replacement too will probably become unusable very quickly.

 

Regards,

 

                John

[Il Grifone]

Replacing the wheels with the later Hornby open spoke wheels from the R.052 chassis would improve the appearance and the running as they are much finer. The brass worm wheel will fit the later axle, but you need to swop axles with the front set to obtain a splined axle or better replace the gears with the later plastic set* as well. However this does require a gear puller (or large file - the destructive method) to remove the worm from the motor armature shaft.

* The gear ratio of the later gears is 28:1 rather than the 20:1 of the brass gears so the end result is a more controllable locomotive than does fly off the rails at the first curve.

 

If this too much faff/expense or you wish to keep the model original, the bushes in the original wheels will need replacement. Note that the model you have is an R.52 not the R.052 (the latter dates from the seventies and has tension lock couplings). The bushes of the two chassis are not interchangeable (the later ones wont fit the earlier wheels and axles and vice versa). The part no. is S.5065 for the R.52 chassis (Service Sheet No.2 November 1955). You may need four as both centre wheels could be insulated, but I think this only applies to some later versions of this chassis, fitted with tension locks.

 

Setting the quartering is vital. They don't have to be at exactly 90°, but they must all be the same. I push the wheel part way on the axle first (just sufficient to hold it) and then do a second axle (first and third is easiest - you don't have to keep unscrewing the tiny screw and risk losing it) and then when all is well push the wheels fully onto their axle. If all is still OK then do the centre axle. Fit the centre axle and gear, less wheels first as the chassis cannot be dismantled once the other wheels are fitted (guess how I found out!).

[kevinlms]

If one driving wheel of an 0-6-0 keeps falling off, does that make it an 0-5-0 shunter?

[cypherman]

Hi all,

Peters spares sell replacement plastic bushes for the isolated wheels. Easy to put in place. But I would suggest a small vice to squeeze them into place. Here is the link to them.

https://www.petersspares.com/index.jsp?searchStr=+PS19+Triang+Hornby+S5065+Replacement+Wheel+Bush+(Pk10)

[DK123GWR]

6 hours ago, hayfield said:

Loctite would be best, buy a cheaper alternative super glue, or 2 part epoxy or one of the modern glues like no more nails/Gorilla glue

 

I've tried that today without success. It looks like I'll be ordering some bushes.

 

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

If one driving wheel of an 0-6-0 keeps falling off, does that make it an 0-5-0 shunter?

Yes it does. Your next challenge is to find one and post it here.

[cypherman]

Hi again,

Just a quick note to suggest that you get a set of wheels from a later model with the shallower flanges. That way it will be able to run on code 100 rail.

Edited August 31, 2020 by cypherman

[The Johnster]

Much depends on whether you want a layout running model or to restore it to original condition.  If you just want a running model, the later wheelset will be your best bet to run it on code 100 modern track; the original coarse scale Rovex wheels, the solid backed ones, will not run through the flangeways of pointwork and will possibly foul on the rail chairs.  If you wish to restore it to running condition as a Rovex/Triang Jinty (a worthwhile project, as this model is historically important, the first 'reasonably scale' model to prove that plastic injection moulding and 2 rail pickup were viable), you can go down the replacement wheel centre bush route, or replace it with an eBay runner.  These are frequently available in working order and for low prices; look for the same type of coupling as yours and a plain black livery with solid wheels.  Later models, 1960-> IIRC, have the 'full loop bar' type of coupling and are lined out in mixed traffic BR livery.

 

If you want a scale Jinty, buy a Bachmann.  Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt, but although the Rovex/Triang/Triang Hornby/Hornby Jinty has evolved over the 65 year it has been in continual production to have all flanged open backed wheels, cab detail, some separate handrails, brake detail, and now drives to the leading axle,  is unfortunately and irretrievably fundamentally compromised by it's axle spacing, inherited from the original Rovex and incorrect for a JInty, or just about anything else if has been put on by Hornby or it's predecessors (350hp shunter, '748' saddle tank, 8750 and 2721 panniers, J83, J52), or anything else in general for that matter.  Hornby have used new toolings for correctness on the J50 and other recent 0-6-0s, but this is reflected in the price.

[DK123GWR]

Interestingly my wheels appear to foul the chairs (or something else is making a very ominous sound whenever the Jinty is running, and even being pushed by hand) yet there are absolutely no problems on points (code 100 Hornby set track made in Austria). I wonder if the enourmous weight contributes to this as it feels heavier than most of my Bo-Bo diesels when held (although I haven't measured).

[sandwich station]

12 minutes ago, DK123GWR said:

Interestingly my wheels appear to foul the chairs (or something else is making a very ominous sound whenever the Jinty is running, and even being pushed by hand) yet there are absolutely no problems on points (code 100 Hornby set track made in Austria). I wonder if the enourmous weight contributes to this as it feels heavier than most of my Bo-Bo diesels when held (although I haven't measured).

 

It's already been mentioned that the early Triang have deeper flanges on the wheels which suit Standard, Series 3 and Super 4 track. For System 6 (code 100) you need to put the finer scale wheels of the later model on, otherwise the flanges touch the chairs of the track.

[cypherman]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Much depends on whether you want a layout running model or to restore it to original condition.  If you just want a running model, the later wheelset will be your best bet to run it on code 100 modern track; the original coarse scale Rovex wheels, the solid backed ones, will not run through the flangeways of pointwork and will possibly foul on the rail chairs.  If you wish to restore it to running condition as a Rovex/Triang Jinty (a worthwhile project, as this model is historically important, the first 'reasonably scale' model to prove that plastic injection moulding and 2 rail pickup were viable), you can go down the replacement wheel centre bush route, or replace it with an eBay runner.  These are frequently available in working order and for low prices; look for the same type of coupling as yours and a plain black livery with solid wheels.  Later models, 1960-> IIRC, have the 'full loop bar' type of coupling and are lined out in mixed traffic BR livery.

 

If you want a scale Jinty, buy a Bachmann.  Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt, but although the Rovex/Triang/Triang Hornby/Hornby Jinty has evolved over the 65 year it has been in continual production to have all flanged open backed wheels, cab detail, some separate handrails, brake detail, and now drives to the leading axle,  is unfortunately and irretrievably fundamentally compromised by it's axle spacing, inherited from the original Rovex and incorrect for a JInty, or just about anything else if has been put on by Hornby or it's predecessors (350hp shunter, '748' saddle tank, 8750 and 2721 panniers, J83, J52), or anything else in general for that matter.  Hornby have used new toolings for correctness on the J50 and other recent 0-6-0s, but this is reflected in the price.

Hi Johnster.

You could always do what I have done in the past and buy a second newer chassis

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Much depends on whether you want a layout running model or to restore it to original condition.  If you just want a running model, the later wheelset will be your best bet to run it on code 100 modern track; the original coarse scale Rovex wheels, the solid backed ones, will not run through the flangeways of pointwork and will possibly foul on the rail chairs.  If you wish to restore it to running condition as a Rovex/Triang Jinty (a worthwhile project, as this model is historically important, the first 'reasonably scale' model to prove that plastic injection moulding and 2 rail pickup were viable), you can go down the replacement wheel centre bush route, or replace it with an eBay runner.  These are frequently available in working order and for low prices; look for the same type of coupling as yours and a plain black livery with solid wheels.  Later models, 1960-> IIRC, have the 'full loop bar' type of coupling and are lined out in mixed traffic BR livery.

 

If you want a scale Jinty, buy a Bachmann.  Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt, but although the Rovex/Triang/Triang Hornby/Hornby Jinty has evolved over the 65 year it has been in continual production to have all flanged open backed wheels, cab detail, some separate handrails, brake detail, and now drives to the leading axle,  is unfortunately and irretrievably fundamentally compromised by it's axle spacing, inherited from the original Rovex and incorrect for a JInty, or just about anything else if has been put on by Hornby or it's predecessors (350hp shunter, '748' saddle tank, 8750 and 2721 panniers, J83, J52), or anything else in general for that matter.  Hornby have used new toolings for correctness on the J50 and other recent 0-6-0s, but this is reflected in the price.

 

2 hours ago, DK123GWR said:

Interestingly my wheels appear to foul the chairs (or something else is making a very ominous sound whenever the Jinty is running, and even being pushed by hand) yet there are absolutely no problems on points (code 100 Hornby set track made in Austria). I wonder if the enourmous weight contributes to this as it feels heavier than most of my Bo-Bo diesels when held (although I haven't measured).

Hi DK,

That is because the flanges of your wheels are too deep and are running on the rail chairs.

[The Johnster]

21 minutes ago, cypherman said:

 

You could always do what I have done in the past and buy a second newer chassis

I didn't want to suggest this as I thought it might confuse the OP; not all newer chassis will fit the original R52 Rovex Triang Railways body.  Older ones, the pre Triang Hornby models from the 60s in lined mixed traffic, should, but when the Triang Hornby LMS crimson lake livery loco came out, with cab detail, brake and rodding, and front axle drive, fundamentally the chassis we still have, the fixings changed.  If my 2721 is anything to go by there is still a tab on the bunker that the rear of the chassis locates on to, but it is now hidden on the inside wall of the bunker, and there is no longer a brass screw down the chimney to hold it at the front; this has been replaced by a screw beneath the chassis that engages with a hole behind the front buffer beam.  

 

DK, are you sure there is no problem on pointwork?   If the flanges are fouling on the chairs, they will probably be running on the bottom of the flangeway channels in the pointwork and will therefore lift the wheel slightly off the rails; this will break electrical pickup and the loco will stop.

 

My view is really that this loco should be retired, or perhaps run on some old Triang track (Standard, Series 3, or Super 4,) and a Jinty with wheels suitable for code 100 (the LMS Crimson Lake Triang Hornby or later, driving on the front axle) acquired for your main layout.

 

[sandwich station]

44 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

My view is really that this loco should be retired, or perhaps run on some old Triang track (Standard, Series 3, or Super 4,) and a Jinty with wheels suitable for code 100 (the LMS Crimson Lake Triang Hornby or later, driving on the front axle) acquired for your main layout.

 

 

 

Triang Hornby have finer scale wheels but are still driven on the centre axle.

[Il Grifone]

Tri-ang wheels have gone through several stages. For an R.52 (I'm assuming we are talking about a mid/late '50s example with a polystyrene body - the acetate ones are all curvy and collectible only - though this does not affect the wheels, as the chassis is the same). This one presumably has the solid wheels 4mm thick with no less than 1.5mm of flange depth and 18 spokes (the less said about the profile the better). This was replaced in the early sixties (with much hoo-hah about "see through spokes") with a slightly less crude effort 'only' 3.5mm thick, but still with 1.5mm flange and 18 spokes. The B2B of these horrors is around 13.8mm (I've never seen a specification for this, but there measure around this figure). this explains why they may have problems with modern track of course. For the second (1978) version of R.052 with the drive to the front axle we got some half decent wheels with the correct* 15 spokes. These are 3.2mm thick, have a 1mm flange depth and a B2B of 14.2mm (basically what Hornby Dublo were offering in 1938). For the SSPP chassis (the one with the floppy back axle and traction tyres on the centre axle) this was slimmed down to 2.7mm.

 

Note the later front axle drive chassis will not fit the earlier body without serious modification

 

* Correct for a 'Jinty', but nothing else AFAIK. Most wheels around this size had 14 spokes, though the 2721 pannier tank had 16! (some probably were re-wheeled in later life with 14 spoke wheels). The Tri-ang wheels are also 19mm diameter for some strange reason. Making them the right size, or even slightly undersize to compensate for the enormous flanges, would have saved a large amount of material over the years.

 

If I can persuade my camera to communicate with my computer I'll post a picture of one of my 'Jinties' with the later wheels.

 

[DK123GWR]

7 hours ago, The Johnster said:

DK, are you sure there is no problem on pointwork?

It's not flawless but it isn't any worse that other locos with pickup on two axles.