Spray Bottle Glue

[Riccarton Junction]

I enjoy watching the lad at Everard Junction working on his layout and something he uses a lot on scenery (grass etc.) and ballast is what appears to be glue dispensed through a spray bottle. I think he says it's a mix of PVA, water, something called Isopropyl Alcohol and washing-up liquid. He uses this to "bed/settle things down" i.e. applying glue/adhesion but via a very fine spray and not blobs of white PVA. This sounds like a good idea to me. Is this a fairly common approach in modelling circles? If so what is a good mix of ingredients i.e. the ratios? 

[dhjgreen]

21 minutes ago, Riccarton Junction said:

I enjoy watching the lad at Everard Junction working on his layout and something he uses a lot on scenery (grass etc.) and ballast is what appears to be glue dispensed through a spray bottle. I think he says it's a mix of PVA, water, something called Isopropyl Alcohol and washing-up liquid. He uses this to "bed/settle things down" i.e. applying glue/adhesion but via a very fine spray and not blobs of white PVA. This sounds like a good idea to me. Is this a fairly common approach in modelling circles? If so what is a good mix of ingredients i.e. the ratios? 

Why not ask Richard

 

[5050]

A quite common technique used for scenery and ballasting.  Use an old window cleaner spray bottle or similar.  Better than chucking them away.  Approx 50:50 PVA/water, few drops of IPA and/or detergent (this breaks down the surface tension of the water allowing it to spread). Proportions aren't that critical, try mixing some up and see how it works for you.  It can take a time to dry depending on the temperature of your site for the layout.

[Riccarton Junction]

5 minutes ago, 5050 said:

Use an old window cleaner spray bottle or similar.  Better than chucking them away.  Approx 50:50 PVA/water, few drops of IPA and/or detergent (this breaks down the surface tension of the water allowing it to spread). 

 

So it's primarily a 50/50 mix of water and glue with just a smidgeon of some detergent? Is washing up liquid regarded as detergent or does it need to be more heavy duty?

[5050]

Washing up liquid is a detergent, it's basically Teepol which is (or at least was) the industrially produced detergent chemical.  It's perfectly adequate for this use.  The cheaper the better really because there won't be so many additives in it to make your hands softer etc. and which won't have any effect on ballast.  Only a couple of drops needed.  You'll see the water/glue mixture 'flatten' as you add it which shows the surface tension of the water has been overcome, so allowing the mixture to spread into the ballast, scenic foams etc. and stop them 'balling up'.

[Riccarton Junction]

If I sprayed this onto dry (unfixed) ballast, and the ballast is then stuck on the track (not rails obviously), does it come off? I'm worried about gluing ballast down and it getting permanently attached to the track, potentially making it difficult to re-use - which is an absolute must for me.

[polybear]

4 hours ago, Riccarton Junction said:

If I sprayed this onto dry (unfixed) ballast, and the ballast is then stuck on the track (not rails obviously), does it come off? I'm worried about gluing ballast down and it getting permanently attached to the track, potentially making it difficult to re-use - which is an absolute must for me.

 

Soaking in water removes the glue; this method also enables track to be lifted, but don't go flooding it cos' the water may affect the baseboards (especially if mdf is used anywhere)  HTH

[Sir TophamHatt]

Spray the area you want to ballast with water + a drop of washing up liquid.

Any old spray bottle will do.  Don't worry about getting the track wet.
This is the bottle you see Richard using.

 

When the water has soaked in, it'll break through the dryness of the ballast and allow the glue mix to soak in too.  The glue mix should be made of 50% water + 50% PVA.
Some use a drop of washing up liquid.  I didn't.

 

When ballasting, use a brush to sweep the ballast.  Then use a teaspoon and bang it on the railhead a few times.  The ballast is likely to fall into the cracks and off the sleepers and rails.

 

I used a big syringe to drop your glue/water mix around the track area making sure I got it inside and outside of the rails.  If it "rolls off" ballast, it's because you didn't wet that bit of ballast before.  Don't worry.  Allow it all to dry and come back to it a few days later to repeat.

DO NOT TRY AND MOVE THE BALLAST WHEN YOU HAVE DONE THIS.  You will just make a mess.

 

It's a pretty permanent fixing and although you can soak it in water to get it off, the ballast won't be able to be used again.

However, you can "rub" any misplaced ballast off the track or sleepers when it's dry.
 

It's worth checking out a product called Copydex.  PVA dries hard, but Copydex will dry with a rubber-like fashion.  This means you can "peel" it off the track when you want to re-use it.  Either way, the track will look a little used.

 

Mine generally dries in a 24 hour period.

 

Re-watch Richard's video.

Also worth looking at Chadwick Model Railway.  Charlie also has a video when he ballasted.  You'll see similar techniques used.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Sir TophamHatt

[Andymsa]

A technique I use to clear the ballast off the sleepers ( please don’t laugh) is one of those bullet sex toys with a variable speed. The high frequency of it works a treat getting at least 99% of the sleepers cleared. It also helps the ballast settles much better. If my choice of method is embarrassing maybe an electric toothbrush method could be used.

[PMW]

I wonder if my wife would be too alarmed if I ask for a vibrator for Christmas?

[BR60103]

I use Woodland Scenics cement which I believe is diluted acrylic matt medium. (It's easily available here). I don't use a big sprayer of it on ballast because it makes craters.

I have a mister (from wife's haurdresser) and I use that to distribute alcohol (about 50%, but more dilute also works) then use an eyedropper to add the glue to the ballast.

 

For other scenery work, e.g. grass or foliage, I paint the glue on the surface then shake the material on. When the first layer is set I add the next layer, mist it then spray with glue.

 

I find that not all sprayers are alike. Some will cover an area while others dig a ditch through the scenery.

 

[MartynJPearson]

9 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

It's a pretty permanent fixing and although you can soak it in water to get it off, the ballast won't be able to be used again.

 

Interesting comment as I recovered a load of ballast - Woodland Scenics - when stripping down a layout that I fully intend to reuse to ballast the next incarnation. After removing the track by soaking it, I scraped up the ballast and once dried sieved it, using a combination of stirring and shaking the bigger bits in a container to break them down. It looks like it did before it went down so I've no reason to believe it won't do the job a second time - but if there are others that have found that all looks well but isn't, it would be good to know before I do reuse it!

[Riccarton Junction]

13 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Also worth looking at Chadwick Model Railway.  Charlie also has a video when he ballasted.  You'll see similar techniques used.

 

Thanks, it's very good and makes the process sound relatively simple.

 

 

Think I might manage without the hopper, but it seemed to be fairly handy if you're doing a lot of track.