cross channel freight pre WW2

[CEINEWYDD]

I have just read in a book that the GWR used to send white fish (from Milford Haven ??) across  channel to France.  Can anyone shed any light on the route/ stock used?  I have seen pictures of Southern railway stock with oodles of alterations to allow this.  Would these have been used??  If not what?  Thanks for any info. 

[Nearholmer]

A boat I would think. The GWR owned a few.

[Wickham Green too]

Maybe by 'Bloater' to Weymouth for a shorter crossing ?

[Joseph_Pestell]

11 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Maybe by 'Bloater' to Weymouth for a shorter crossing ?

I don't think that there were any crossings to France from Weymouth.

 

The GW had running rights to Southampton and that would seem a more likely point of embarkation.

[Nearholmer]

The GWR had a Plymouth to France (Roscoff or Le Havre I think) cargo boat, but at what dates I have no idea.

 

Shipping services have a habit of switching ports, or being tried for a few seasons and then dropped, so a bit of research might reveal a GWR service from Milford Haven to France at some dates.

 

What the GWR didn’t have, though, was either cross channel train ferries or (TBOMK)  any wagons fitted for ferry travel. Train ferries were an LNER and then SR thing in this country.

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

What the GWR didn’t have, though, was either cross channel train ferries or (TBOMK)  any wagons fitted for ferry travel. Train ferries were an LNER and then SR thing in this country.

They did, though, have a major share in railway just a ferry ride away from one of their ports .................................. shame about the gauge difference !

[TheQ]

They, GWR, did of course run cross channel ferries both passenger and Cargo across the channel to the Channel Islands from weymouth.

Pre WW1 they had a cargo route from Plymouth to Nantes, when that finished I don't know, but I suspect it was going still after ww1, as one of the ships bought for the route wasn't scrapped till 1925.

[eastglosmog]

The Great Western did run a Weymouth - Cherbourg service, but only from 1878 to 1885.

[SED Freightman]

The 1926 Railway Year Book lists GWR steamships operating between Fishguard & Ireland (SS Great Southern, Great Western, St Andrew, St David, St Patrick) and between Weymouth & Channel Islands (SS Reindeer, Roebuck, Sambur, St Julien, St Helier).  Perhaps the Channel Islands services had onwards connections to France.

[Fat Controller]

I'd suggest it's most likely that the fish either travelled in the guard's van from Milford to Paddington, and then was transported to one of the SR ports that dealt with the short-sea crossing, or travelled in a fish van via the Reading- Redhill route to the port.

[jonhall]

22 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

What the GWR didn’t have, though, was either cross channel train ferries or (TBOMK)  any wagons fitted for ferry travel. Train ferries were an LNER and then SR thing in this country.

 

That's true, but perhaps not the full story. From what I can tell, the train ferry (ships) where owned by the British, but the wagons were mostly supplied from the Continent, so the Great Western's lack of wagons doesn't necessarily preclude them from using the train ferries, however it would probably have relied on a Continent>UK traffic, to exploit the otherwise empty vans return to home territory.

 

Throughout the train ferries existence, there was always an imbalance of trade, with more arriving, than departing the UK, and as I understand in BR times there was some form of 'demurrage'  charge, where  BR became responsible for effectively wagon rental, from the moment wagons arrived in the UK, to encourage them to be promptly sent back. Ferry wagons were certainly centrally controlled, with no local ability to organise a back load without some central authorisation. There were also strict rules about where the back load could be sent, especially  if it wasn't back to the owning administration, so for example, an Italian wagon probably could be back loaded to France via Dover, because it was travelling 'in the right direction', but couldn't go to Holland, or via Harwich, because it wasn't heading for home. 

 

Jon

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, SED Freightman said:

The 1926 Railway Year Book lists GWR steamships operating between Fishguard & Ireland (SS Great Southern, Great Western, St Andrew, St David, St Patrick) and between Weymouth & Channel Islands (SS Reindeer, Roebuck, Sambur, St Julien, St Helier).  Perhaps the Channel Islands services had onwards connections to France.

I don't think there were ever any onward connections out of GWR ferries to the Channel islands.  As already noted there were at various times GWR ferry services  (apparently using cargo vessels) between Weymouth or Plymouth and a variety of French ports but the GWR never settled down to being a serious ferry operator between England and France.  Its traditional routes were Ireland and the Channel isles plus running connecting tenders for transatlantic liners at Plymouth.