LMS coaching stock types - and what date?

[MarshLane]

Evening all,

Can anyone help me to date this photograph (not mine, and not my website) L&YR Class 8 'Dreadnought' Image

 

I am trying to date the photograph, which I think is late 1920s/early 1930s, but I am not 'up' on L&Y and LMS history, and also to identify as much detail of the carriage stock as possible.  Can anyone help?

 

Rich

[BernardTPM]

First coach is an ex-L&YR Brake Third*, after that I think it's a Midland Bain period Brake probably Brake 3rd, then an LMS Period 1 Composite (or possibly 3rd, but there looks to be a non-window panel in there), next I think is ex-L&YR Third, then another L&YR Brake Third or Brake Composite*. This whole front section is corridor stock. Harder to tell after that, but the next coach looks much older given it's arc roof. Again probably L&YR, possibly non-corridor. The last coach might be a Midland clerestory, but no idea what type. Makes for an interesting train though.

 

* There's a very similar non-corridor L&YR Brake Third preserved. The recess for the guard' ducket is a good recognition point.

[Compound2632]

The second carriage, the ex-Midland Bain or round-light clerestory, is a 54 ft composite seen from the corridor side - the positions of the door vents give it away. It's not a brake vehicle as there's no guard's ducket. I think the fourth carriage may be an ex-LNWR "toplight" corridor third or composite, again seen from the corridor side - zooming in, one can make out the toplights. The fifth carriage might be an ex-LNWR arc-roof corridor vehicle, one of the 50 ft carriages built in large numbers around the turn of the century and commonly seen in express trains well into the 1920s.. The corridor is on the far side. I base this on the very prominent roof vents, two to each compartment but off-set from the centre line, and also on this carriage being narrower than the others. The final vehicle is almost certainly an ex-Midland square-light 31 ft 6-wheel passenger brake van, likewise still common and widespread around the LMS system before large numbers of the LMS standard 50 ft brakes had been built.

 

The photo must be no earlier than 1928, given the LMS on the tender side, and could easily be well into the 1930s.

 

It is a splendid train, with representatives of all the major English constituents of the LMS plus an LMS standard vehicle, along with an engine from a large and important class that is much overlooked - there were eighty of these engines and they were the mainstay of the ex-LNWR main line north of Crewe at least until the arrival of the Royal Scots. They may not have been the most successful engines but they were better on the job than the much-lauded Claughtons.

 

 

[MarshLane]

Bernard/Stephen,

Thanks very much for your input, much appreciated.  @Compound2632 Your knowledge of roof vents is a credit - superb!

 

Rich