building signals and trackwork?

[Royal42]

I am building a layout which will require some elements that might not be found in a model railway catalogue, and I may need to scratchbuild.  Can anyone help with my queries?

The first query is about platform base signals, such as this one at Birmingham New Street.  Anyone know how I might be able to work out the dimensions?

 

 

 

My second query is about the Signal Box No.5, also at Birmingham New Street, which I have read is 80 feet long but I don't know the height or width.  Is there a way to identify the floor and roof heights and width?

 

cheers,
Mike

[Ray H]

Signal arm sizes were generally standard for each type. I think there is a railway standard document that you can find on the Internet that may be able to give you a guide to signal arm sizes. You can use this measurement as a guide to calculating other measurements.

 

There are several "markers" that you could use for guides which is what some people do when trying to work out the height of buildings from photographs.

 

You could, for example, take the track gauge as a known measurement at the bottom of the last picture. You could then measure it again at the first point and use the ratio to work out the height of, say, the upper floor of the signal box nearest the camera. You could use that also as a guide to the height of the gantry.

 

In the first picture you could use the height of the door on the coach as a base guide.

 

You could also use the height of the platform from the ground - which is generally - a set height, to get the height of the posts.

[Royal42]

Hello Ray,

thanks, I had forgotten about such salient points.  I like to do photo-interpretations when I can; however, I hadn't noticed the coach door! Thank you for highlighting that.  Those other markers will be helpful also and I shall give them a go.

 

cheers,
Mike

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Royal42

[Grovenor]

There is a book on LMS signals, I think by Graham Warburton which had much of the info you would need including representative scale drawings. Long out of print I expect but should be available second hand.

eg

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&cm_sp=SearchF-_-home-_-Results&an=Graham+Warburton.&tn=&kn=LMS+Signals&isbn=

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Grovenor

[Royal42]

Thanks for the recommendation Keith, I have just gone online and ordered a reprint copy.

cheers,
Mike

[Royal42]

On 21/03/2021 at 12:50, Grovenor said:

There is a book on LMS signals, I think by Graham Warburton

 

The book arrived this morning and, for me, it is excellent with virtually a diagram, photograph and description on each turn of the page.  There are also diagrams and photo's of signal boxes, including an L.M.S. Standard Wooden Signal Box which matches the one at Birmingham New Street.  The BNS version is 80 feet long, but it wouldn't take much to make extensions to this drawing.

 

Some of the measurements are a little hard to read, mainly as the plan has been reduced to the book size, but at least I have a basis for my build.

 

Thanks again for the recommendation.

Mike

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Royal42

[Michael Hodgson]

Your first photo shows a railwayman in uniform near the signal. 

The bracket horizontal isn't far above his head, say 8' and overall it's not a lot more than twice his height, so say 14' to 15'? 

[Royal42]

I have been looking through my recently arrived L.M.S. Signals book and, although it doesn't show a platform mounted gantry; it does have a section on restricted height signals.  The diagram states that the height, from the ground alongside the track, was 14 feet to the centre of the horizontal semaphore signal.  So, good estimation there, although it doesn't show a support gantry at that approx. 8 foot level.  I didn't use the railwayman as I  was absolutely sure he was alongside the signal post.  To me, it looked as if he was a few feet short of arriving at that alignment.

I find it very pleasing that members are willing to contribute ideas and recommendations here.  I must admit that I do need that help sometimes!

cheers,

Mike

Edited March 22, 2021 by Royal42