Solar panels

[Nick C]

I thought that was announced ages ago, but it looks like this is the 'official' announcement rather than just planning. A couple of oddities though:

 

- it's up to the supplier how much of the saving gets passed on to the customer, which could substantially reduce the incentive depending how greedy the supplier is. 

- Only 24 hours notice of each test day, which doesn't give you long to plan (for example to work from home so you can cook at lunchtime rather than the evening)

- Still no mention of how it's measured - if you're being paid for energy you don't use, what's the baseline? Is it your average, the national average, how much you used the previous day/the same day the previous week, etc?

[hayfield]

Nick

 

I think we should not over think this, its a pilot and is designed to maintain power at peak times, if we fail to adapt, the consequences of doing nothing may be far worse

 

Firstly its not asking everyone to do this,

Its not compulsory

Those who partake get a payment based on the amount of energy they saved against their average use

Its a pilot scheme, to see the best way of operating the system

 

If you fall out of the target group, that can easily adapt their lifestyle, the system is working to provide those outside this group, who have greater need for energy in peak periods

 

With schemes like this we should concentrate on the benefits it can produce , whilst at the same time iron out the negative effects.

 

 

[Nick C]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of reducing energy use (especially at peak times) - just pointing out that there are a few things that still need to be thought about!

 

The challenge, of course, is not the people who can easily adapt their lifestyles, or those who really need the energy - it's getting through to those who simply don't care - those who leave everything on all the time etc. Not just consumers either  - You still see shops and offices fully lit out of hours for example.

[hayfield]

Nick

 

Sorry if I gave that impression, not meant. Like the action to obtain a vaccine for a virus. We should try all methods. Those who cannot be bothered we can never change, they will only alter their ways after a painful experience.

 

Having said that it is up to those of us who can change our ways to do so to help those who need power at peak times. And if we can at the same time benefit financially all the better

[hayfield]

Back to solar power, as I expected yesterday was a complete washout, my production was down to 0.7 kwh for the day. Only to be expected as we are moving from autumn to winter. It took my system 90 mins to pass yesterdays production and is the best day for nearly 2 weeks.

 

Looking back at last year we only averaged 2 kwh per day for the month, its too soon to say how good or bad this month will be, but with rates so high anything is worthwhile, certainly against the assumptions used when my system was ordered.

[stewartingram]

Anybody remember the interesting programme they did on tv, back in the 70s? "A House for the Future", they did a rather nice little book afterwards, which I have. Available on Amazon:

 

House for the Future: Amazon.co.uk: Terence McLaughlin, Brian Watson: 9780900727559: Books

 

Basically it was a DIY rebuild of an old house up near Matlock I believe. They insulated it, made diy solar pamels, wind generator etc. Worth a look even today.

 

 

[hayfield]

What a dismal month for those of us with solar panels, just like last year as far as production is concerned if not worse. But it is winter and we know next month will be worse, the only bright spot is I am getting paid nearly 3 times the amount per kwh exported than I was being paid last year. Interestingly its about just below par for the average projected monthly saving on my initial projection, sadly down to the high prices for energy rather than the systems performance

[Hibelroad]

On 04/11/2022 at 20:36, stewartingram said:

Anybody remember the interesting programme they did on tv, back in the 70s? "A House for the Future", they did a rather nice little book afterwards, which I have. Available on Amazon:

 

House for the Future: Amazon.co.uk: Terence McLaughlin, Brian Watson: 9780900727559: Books

 

Basically it was a DIY rebuild of an old house up near Matlock I believe. They insulated it, made diy solar pamels, wind generator etc. Worth a look even today.

 

 

If this was the Granada TV build then it was located near Macclesfield and I think it still exists. It’s was revolutionary at the time being clad with insulation and having controlled ventilation with heat recovery. The solar panels were for water heating rather than electricity generation. I was too young at the time to take much notice of it but many of the innovative ideas have become mainstream today. I worked for the electricity board at the time and it amused me that a 3 phase supply was installed for an energy efficient house, but I suppose that was for the TV and heavy building work and it was removed and converted to single phase when the project was completed. 

[Ian Morgan]

Keeping the 3-phase supply would have been useful for fitting a higher power electric car charging point (11kW?) rather than the 7kW chargers that single phase supports. The newer electric cars today with big batteries take a long time to fully charge at 7kW.

 

Such a development would probably not have been imagined back in the 1970's.

 

 

[hayfield]

On 04/11/2022 at 09:04, hayfield said:

This is an interesting development on the BBC website this morning

 

Households will be offered discounts on their electricity bills if they cut peak-time use on a handful of days over the winter, as part of National Grid's efforts to avoid blackouts.

 

For some its will be like a red flag to a bull, others will see it as an opportunity. Why should folk like me who have the ability to change our habits/usage of power so that others who either desperately need constant power or cannot change their activities can have it at peak times.  Its not saying don't use power, just don't use energy hungry appliances, the fact that in doing so rather than the grid paying exorbitant amounts to foreign energy suppliers, rewarding those who help out seems economic sense

 

What hardship is it to cook at lunchtime rather than in the evening for those of us who can ? I rather eat early than have no central heating for an hour, especially if it helps out others in doing so. 

 

Also it may reduce the barriers some have against smart meters, which in themselves mean little to those who have them but open the gates to cheaper schemes.

 

 

Well I got an email yesterday stating I saved 0.767kWh and earned 1384 OctoPoints – worth £1.73

 

As it happened the only changes we made were not to use the oven between 5 & 6 pm (I had planned to cook a Chinese meal anyway on our gas hob) and only use the family room for light and watching TV, so no real hardship at all

 

The system said we saved 73% of our normal usage. Octopus customers saved 108mwh during the test

 

Looking at it we used 0.767 kwh less power saving us 27p, our total net cost of electricity that day was £2.04 on the negative side we may have used 3p worth of extra gas. The additional plus is we will get £1.73 back. A few months back there was a big outcry from some on the Smart Meter thread about the negative side of this method of protecting/saving energy with this technology. OK £1.73 is not much on its own but when added to all the other little benefits Smart Meters, DDI payments, and solar power etc it all adds up

 

On that day my gross power costs were £2.21 take off all the benefits of solar power and the Octopoints  my net cost of Electricity on that day reduced to £0.31p . Well worth changing cooking method or timing and I guess during times of stress on the system if it stops power cuts or saves the generator spending millions on additional power costs must be worth the slight inconveniance

[Tony_S]

We received payment for 6months of electricity sent to the grid. For some reason payment is by cheque. Even though the cheque was issued from an account at the same bank (different sort code/  branch) the bank cheque home scanning app can’t process unsigned cheques. We don’t have a local branch anymore but I was able to pay it it at a Post Office which we still fortunately have a couple of locally.  
Tony

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tony_S said:

We don’t have a local branch anymore but I was able to pay it it at a Post Office which we still fortunately have a couple of locally. 

 

With the bank's app on the phone I was able to pay in a cheque by taking a photo of it.

[Trainshed Terry]

It is so cloudy here today my solor panels aren't doing a lot in the way of feeding in to the network. And it is rainning now.

 

Terry

[Tony_S]

1 hour ago, 30801 said:

 

With the bank's app on the phone I was able to pay in a cheque by taking a photo of it.

My bank accepted that their app can’t process an unsigned cheque image. Perhaps the next upgrade will. They didn’t even have a cheque paying option on their app until long after others had. 

[Tony_S]

42 minutes ago, Trainshed Terry said:

It is so cloudy here today my solor panels aren't doing a lot in the way of feeding in to the network. And it is rainning now.

 

Terry

Similar here. Producing 22 watts and battery down to 20%. It is so murky out we have lights on in the lounge and kitchen.

[Fenman]

3 hours ago, Tony_S said:

…

We don’t have a local branch anymore but I was able to pay it it at a Post Office which we still fortunately have a couple of locally.  
Tony

It may not have made any difference — most of the branches that remain seem to have been downgraded / gutted of most banking services. My local HSBC branch (in a very big market town) explained I couldn’t pay Scottish bank notes into my account: I’d have to go to the Post Office to change them for Bank of England notes, then return to my branch. Wow. 
 

Paul

[hayfield]

Something what I totally missed was the change in my projected usage in February (when I first started looking into a system  and my September 2021 bill projection, both of which stood at 3400 kwh pa. Since then it for a year gradually reduced to 2040 kwh.

 

OK these are projections so I looked at what I used last year, Surprisingly the projections are quite close to my usage, and a harsh winter certainly could increase my bill by a lot

Electric projected next 12 months usage2041  Used last 12 months 1962kwh

Gas projected next 12 months  13,679   Used last 12 months 133342

 

Over a 12 month period its looking like out of the 2502 kwh I have generated over the past 12 months, I have only used 783 kwh myself which is slightly below projections (10kwh) but my production is well above projections 2502/2205 kwh

 

But the savings have been far greater than projected as they used 16p for imports and about 4p for exports. I am paying/receiving  35p/15p.

 

If I generate and use the same amounts at todays rates the value of the energy I use from my own production would be £274 and exports earnt £258. My first years yield was projected at £204. Hopefully energy costs will fall over the next year so I doubt if my return will be as good but with inflation running at over 10% this year my £2688 I spent had it been left in the bank would have fallen greatly by over £270

 

At the moment if someone is thinking of staying in their property for a few years its seemingly a wise investment

 

[hayfield]

Forgot to say Octopus are having a second test event this evening, this time between 5;30 and 6;30 pm. I think the wok will be coming out again.

[hayfield]

What a disappointment November was, only a mere 47 kwh produced against 63 kwh the previous year, the only comfort was that September and October were much better this year than last .

 

December started better for the first two days but Saturday and Sunday were a wash out

 

The Octopus trials were interesting, for some reason I must have accidently removed myself from the second trial, still the third and fourth happened last week and we were away, which will make up for missing out on the second

 

Still the shortest day is getting nearer and the sun will be moving to a better angle for our garden in the coming weeks. Just need to get through the next 3 months then spring will be with us

[sjp23480]

John,

We managed 69KwH in December, so marginally better than you but not a patch on September (236kwh) or October (164kwh).

 

Obviously our grid consumption has obviously increased September 99kwh, October 172kwh and November 274kwh.

 

Interestingly our gas bill (heating, hot water and gas hob) has increased significantly from £29 in September (we had a two week vacation) to £255 in November!   Which is a combination of the weather, price cap increases and daughter No1 coming home (she can't afford to live independently anymore)!  

Steve

[hayfield]

32 minutes ago, sjp23480 said:

John,

We managed 69KwH in December, so marginally better than you but not a patch on September (236kwh) or October (164kwh).

 

Obviously our grid consumption has obviously increased September 99kwh, October 172kwh and November 274kwh.

 

Interestingly our gas bill (heating, hot water and gas hob) has increased significantly from £29 in September (we had a two week vacation) to £255 in November!   Which is a combination of the weather, price cap increases and daughter No1 coming home (she can't afford to live independently anymore)!  

Steve

 

Steve 

 

My last gas bill was for £124.17 using 1123.7 kwh  against last year £66.78 using 1543.3kwh. usage down quite a bit but doubled in price.  By the way my bitt for Sept was £24.26 

 

In Sept we produced 202 kwh and October 170 kwh

 

Grid consumption in Sept 152 kwh, Oct 137.7 kwh and Nov 216.2  (we were away for 12 days in Oct)  I guess you have batteries as your consumption has increased greatly, I loose out on export income was £13 in Sept (old rates) and £19 in Oct. Nov plummeted to £2.50. Out of interest my export last November was much the same in value even though rates have tripled, shows how bad last month was

 

We used to buy a veg box every fortnight, these winter months were called the lean months. Its the same with solar power, whatever we generate between October and March is a bonus. The shear fact than my consumption from the grid has dropped from 3400 kwh to 2040 is reason enough, then I got paid for exporting 1749.1 kwh which if rates remain as high will be worth £262

 

Seems now most who were quite distaining about getting solar panels are now converted. My nephew is looking into a home improvement loan on his mortgage to fund a system (he is a lighting engineer so can do most of the fitting required)

 

[sjp23480]

John,

 

Yes, we do have a small (3kwh) battery, which helps eek out the power through the day, but I don't think it has been 100% charged since early November.

 

Steve

[hayfield]

I looked at buying batteries when we first ordered the system and again in the Spring of this year. Last year the cost of a 5 kw system was £5000, certainly not cost effective at 16p per kwh for imports. in the spring the cost had reduced to £3500, I think my calculations were based on 18p per kwh imports which looked good until I took the loss of exports at 7.5p per kwh

 

I don't know how the maths works with imports costing 35p per kwh and exports at 15p per kwh especially as discounts seemed to have gone at the moment. My export for Nov 926/10-25/11) was 30 kwh, December and January will be worse) so batteries will not be much use in winter. As I said I exported 1749 in the past 12 months, even at todays rates the difference between import and export prices if I used all I produced its a saving of £179pa (difference between import and export rates) it would take 19 years to recoup the cost, would they last that long ?

 

To make it worthwhile I would need a larger system to make more use of batteries, batteries with wind power may be more beneficial?

 

I chose to have 7 panels rather than a maximum of 8 that my extension roof would hold, simply down to cost as the additional panel would cost £500 more. This would have produced appx 256 kwh more, appx would save/make £56 pa at todays rates, far less return than the 7 panels. I guess due to very high energy costs it could be argued for buying the extra one, but when rates were at 16p import and 3p export the numbers just did not add up. I am happy with my decision and hopefully rates over the next year will come down. 

[sjp23480]

John,

 

We also have 7 panels facing ESE, the yield drops off a cliff once the sun is "past the yard arm".  We could add 2/3 more panels to a small south facing roof if/when it makes sense.  I haven't even got a quote but I am waiting to see how the initial installation performs.

 

For us the battery makes sense, we use very little power in the day, so it sees us through the afternoon and early evening. 

 

Eventually, I will set up a spreadsheet to track the benefits.  Either way, the break even is at least 9 years out but the ongoing ROI is still healthier than a savings account at 8-10% per annum.

 

Thankfully we have sun today, so I hope to charge up the battery for later.

 

Steve

 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by sjp23480

[hayfield]

Steve we have issues with shading from mid morning for an hour, first a big fir tree then a house roof then for a couple of hours from 12**. I always thought we faced south, well the garden does but the house is SSE facing at 155 degrees. The shading is worse at ground level but on the 1st floor much better. We are at home all day so can take advantage of the power we produce

 

We can find flaws in everything, but the figures in the initial forecast looked promising, sadly due to the energy crisis it has proved a godsend. No doubt over time I may regret not having a full set of 12 panels in total using both roofs and not installing a battery, but at this moment I am more than happy

 

My daughter and son in law is moving to a new property next year, he has decided to fit solar panels, they do have a hybrid car so can take advantage of using surplus energy for the car, but like me he initially thinks more is good, rather than analyse what they will need, still when the estimates arrive I guess they may change their minds  

 

** edited 

Edited December 7, 2022 by hayfield