Castle Class Loco with TTS refusing to move, Motor seized /Decoder?

[Smudge617]

 Hi Guys, need a little help here. My Castle class loco was happily doing a few rounds on my layout, and it suddenly stops and wont respond to the controller.

So I tried resetting the decoder on multiple occasions,(Hornby TTS),  but keep getting a "No ACK Pulse" response from my controller, ( I've checked my other models and there is no problem with the controller ). I have all the sounds as usual, but the Loco won't move forward but when I try it causes a short, however, weirdly, I only get a short if I apply power going forward, but not when in reverse (it doesn't move in either direction tho'). Could this be the motor or the decoder

[Jenny Emily]

I have a King TTS decoder acting similar, but not entirely the same. I get sounds but no movement. I tested it in another loco and it is definitely the decoder at issue. No shorting though. 

[Chrisr40]

Hi, I think no ack pulse means it cant detect a load ie the motor and as such is refusing to work. Some info potentially in this thread."DCC++ Not Talking to Decoders - DCC Help & Questions - RMweb" https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/141530-dcc-not-talking-to-decoders/

[steviesparx]

Remove decoder and fit blank, try on DC - gives you a heads up as to whether chip or loco / motor...

[Smudge617]

Many Thanks to everyone for their help, turns out when I put power direct to motor from my DC controller it cuts out, so motor it is, all I have to do is find a replacement. As this motor is not one I have seen before, a little digging is required. But if anyone knows what motor this is, and where I am likely to find one, I would appreciate their help.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Smudge617
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[Going Spare]

That is not a Hornby Castle tender drive unit - it has never been tender-driven.  Probably vintage Airfix.

[Smudge617]

21 minutes ago, Going Spare said:

That is not a Hornby Castle tender drive unit - it has never been tender-driven.  Probably vintage Airfix.

Ah! that explains why I haven't seen one, thanks.

[The Johnster]

I have an idea some early Hornby Castles were produced from the Airfix tooling, but may well be wrong.  It may explain the OP's view that this is a Hornby loco, if it came in a Hornby red box, or was acquired on the 'Bay described as a Hornby loco.  It is a few years old, though. 

 

A replacement pancake motor might be available from Peter's Spares, but will be a used item and not brand new.  There is little to lose by removing this one and having a look at it to see if you can get it going, though.  A short should be easy enough to locate as the motor housing and the tender drive chassis are plastic; maybe the magnet has picked up something metallic which has got itself jammed in somewhere and is misdirecting current.  Have a look at the carbon brushes, held to the commutator (copper faced bit with the wiring wound around it) by the springs inside the two clips that the feed wires are soldered to; they may be worn and need replacing (Peter's again).  The springs will attempt to ping off in an attempt to make a break for the border or sacrifice themselves to the Carpet God; I stick such items into a lump of Blutac to keep them from doing this.  Carbon deposit on the copper face of the commutator will need to be cleaned, a fibre pen will be fine for this.

 

If it's a short, have a look at the loco chassis as well,  for errant bits of metal.  Be methodical and process by elimination and you should be able to get it running; if not, then maybe it is time to accept that this old stager has had it's day and replace it/relegate to shed lurker or display shelf.  It must be at least 30 years old.

[Smudge617]

UPDATE

Thanks everyone

The motor is an Airfix, and the problem with the motor was that the retaining screws on the motor housing had worked loose and one of the small plastic gears inside had got stuck, Sorted that out, works a treat now.

[The Johnster]

They may have not been the best motors in the world especially in terms of slow running, but those old pancakes are pretty bombproof reliable and repairable!

[Smudge617]

On 01/05/2021 at 20:27, The Johnster said:

They may have not been the best motors in the world especially in terms of slow running, but those old pancakes are pretty bombproof reliable and repairable!

Problem I have is this motor has 3 gears inside the motor and no one seems to have spares. Have to wait for the fairs to open up again and see if I can find one then.

[The Johnster]

The spur gears.  If these are split, worn out, or missing you'll need replacements, and if Peter's Spares or James & Lendon can't help you are in a much more serious situation.  Alternatives are to obtain a suitable tender chassis from a donor loco on eBay or at the fairs; Airfix Dean Goods will fit.  It may be possible to use spur gears from other drives; steam tender drives, diesel/electric power bogies, and perhaps Mainline pancake drive steam models.  I do not know if this will work but it may be worth looking into. 

 

Failing that, do you know anyone with a 3D printer who might be able to knock some up for you from the old ones if you have them.  Or, build a Comet chassis kit for loco drive for it, but the costs and time spent are going up a bit now.  Sadly, it may be time to retire this loco and give the opportunity of an exciting new career as a shed lurker or shelf display. 

[Smudge617]

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The spur gears.  If these are split, worn out, or missing you'll need replacements, and if Peter's Spares or James & Lendon can't help you are in a much more serious situation.  Alternatives are to obtain a suitable tender chassis from a donor loco on eBay or at the fairs; Airfix Dean Goods will fit.  It may be possible to use spur gears from other drives; steam tender drives, diesel/electric power bogies, and perhaps Mainline pancake drive steam models.  I do not know if this will work but it may be worth looking into. 

 

Failing that, do you know anyone with a 3D printer who might be able to knock some up for you from the old ones if you have them.  Or, build a Comet chassis kit for loco drive for it, but the costs and time spent are going up a bit now.  Sadly, it may be time to retire this loco and give the opportunity of an exciting new career as a shed lurker or shelf display. 

Thanks Everyone.

I've tried Peter's spares and about 20 other suppliers and various forums with no success. Luckily I have found someone on eBay who has a tender chassis and motor  which looks like the one I need, it has issues with the chassis but hopefully I'll be able swop them around but I should get it up and running.

It'll be the last Airfix Model I purchase, too much of a headache. But I will look into finding someone with a 3D printer, get some spares gears made up and safely tuck them away for a rainy day.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Smudge617
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