Signalling an Engine Shed Junction.

[Free At Last]

I wanted to lay the entrance on to my mpd similar to that at Lower Darwen but for space reasons had to make a few alterations on the loop.
What I would like help with is how this would be signaled. 
Post war LMS ex L&Y.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

Ground signals to reverse over the connections into the depot area and probably miniature semaphores to signal movements from the depot area.  One end of the double slip would be 'box worked to form a trap point but the other end would be worked by hand lever in order to make moves within the depot a lot simpler .

 

The only big question mark is the extent to which yellow arm signals might be used on the exit signals but clearly that would be a good idea at the end where the double slip is situated as it could be imp[ortant for moves being made within the depot plus enegines coming on or going off shed.

[30851]

The signal  box diagram for Lower Darwin Engine Shed appears in the book - https://www.amazon.com/Signal-Boxes-Lancashire-Yorkshire-Railway/dp/187322821X If you don't have the book or cannot get a copy and want to to see the diagram then let me know and I can PM the details. 

 

Note - Mike has got the details correct! To answer his question there was one yellow arm signal just where he expected it to be.

 

Rob  

[Free At Last]

@30851 I have pm'd you, thanks.
I have just found another drawing which also shows a crossover whereas I assumed from the first drawing that the crossing was a single slip, so it looks like I may have made a boob. Not too late to alter though.

 

[30851]

13 minutes ago, Free At Last said:

@30851 I have pm'd you, thanks.
I have just found another drawing which also shows a crossover whereas I assumed from the first drawing that the crossing was a single slip, so it looks like I may have made a boob. Not too late to alter though.

 

 

Both drawings are correct - just depends on the date you are modelling.  Somewhere around 1933 the layout was changed from your newly found diagram to the single slip layout you have modelled. As your are doing postwar then you are in luck and have no changes to make. The diagram in the book is for the single slip layout.

 

 

Rob

 

[30851]

I have replied to your PM.

 

Looking at the diagram the thing that looks strange to me is the lack of shunt signals for reversing back from the down line to either the up line across the slip or into the shed. But when I look at pictures of the place in Blackburn's Railways in the 1950's and 60's there seems to be no shunt signals - so I would be wrong on the need for them!

 

Rob

[Free At Last]

I have done a fag packet sketch of the signal box diagram.
What do the 4** & 16** symbols by the signal box denote?

[4069]

Detonator placers

[WillCav]

Would the distant signals 19 & 20 be on the same lever? Not saying it's wrong, just asking.

Will

[bécasse]

16 hours ago, WillCav said:

Would the distant signals 19 & 20 be on the same lever? Not saying it's wrong, just asking.

Will

If they were on the same lever, they would have the same number, the numbers shown are the lever numbers. While 19 would require all the relevant stop signals to be pulled off first, the locking on 20 probably just depends on 19 being pulled off.

 

It may seem superfluous providing separate levers but distants could be difficult pulls to adjust, having them on separate levers makes the technician's task marginally easier. I remember in the early 1960s being invited by the bobby at Andover Junction A box to pull off the distant (and it was distant because of the falling gradient) for the down ACE, I pulled the lever exactly as I had been taught and watched the indicator go from "on" to "wrong". Put it back and have another go said the bobby, I tried twice more but the indicator stubbornly stuck at "wrong". That's funny said the bobby, none of us can get it to go to "off" either, and the lineman has had half-a-dozen fruitless attempts at putting it right.

Edited May 19, 2021 by bécasse

[beast66606]

2 hours ago, WillCav said:

Would the distant signals 19 & 20 be on the same lever? Not saying it's wrong, just asking.

Will

 

bécasse has answered, these are also slots rather than the arms which are heavier, so just the balance weight would be trying to return several hundred yards of wire run on it's own, there may have been assister weights in the runs to make the action more reliable , additionally there would be back slotting between the starting signal and the outer distant making it even heavier, so putting each distant on a separate lever makes sense.

 

Some places were the opposite, with several levers operating one arm - I had a go at Helsby Junctions distant which was operated by both lever 44 and 45, 44 took up the slack and 45 actually cleared the arm.