Vortexwake Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) H folks I have a Bachmann 37 with a Esau lok sound v5 which running degraded to stuttering I cleaned the track and wheels to no avail so I tried the auto tune the loco for a a few inches and stopped I tried again and got nothing loco is now dead I so I took the decoder out and placed the blank and ran it under dc and all was well so not quite sure what to do now. I use a Gauge Master Prodigy Express. any help would be appreciated. Steve Edited May 23, 2021 by Vortexwake Info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymsa Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Sounds like the decoder has an issue, do you have a decoder tester like the one available from ESU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortexwake Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 Hi many thanks for replying unfortunately I don't have a tester I tried it again and it judder a few inches I then looked at the cv's and found Most were populated with zero's so I'm thinking the decoder has failed. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 (edited) It really does sound like a pickup problem to me. If it's not picking up you won't read the CVs! Does it work OK on DC? Get the keeper plate off the bogies and remove the wheels. Clean the backs and most importantly bend the pickups out so they have good contact with the wheels. What CVs have zero in them? When you first got the loco or first installed the chip, did you record any of the CV settings so you can return to the originals? I recommend CVs 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (not in V5) 63, 64, 65 & 54. CV54 is where the Auto Tune stores it result number. If it gets worse restore to old number or do another auto tune. If the loco lost pickup during auto tune I imagine the number will be useless. You could try removing the chip and and powering the motor contacts direct with DC! Dave. Edited May 23, 2021 by dasatcopthorne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 I have tried the autotune on ESU V4 L decoders I have, and personally I don't rate it at all, it has always made my locos run worse and left me with a lot of faff to get running smoothly again. In fact one of my locos has been out of use for some months now because of autotune, which completely resetting the decoder to factory defaults has not undone either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 It is known that Auto Tune sometimes makes it worse first time round. Try again. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 May I say that there is a lesson to be had here. Record the CVs I suggest when you first put a loco on the track. It may save you a lot of grief later. I have a little chart I record all of mine in and then record changes made as well. Keeping a history. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortexwake Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 Hi guys Thanks for your time I have run the locomotive on dc and it runs Just fine no stuttering at all my other dc c locomotive also run just Fine too I will try I try and reprogram some cv's from the esu decoder tips and Tricks paper work I have found on the net Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortexwake Posted May 23, 2021 Author Share Posted May 23, 2021 46 minutes ago, dasatcopthorne said: It really does sound like a pickup problem to me. If it's not picking up you won't read the CVs! Does it work OK on DC? Get the keeper plate off the bogies and remove the wheels. Clean the backs and most importantly bend the pickups out so they have good contact with the wheels. What CVs have zero in them? When you first got the loco or first installed the chip, did you record any of the CV settings so you can return to the originals? I recommend CVs 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (not in V5) 63, 64, 65 & 54. CV54 is where the Auto Tune stores it result number. If it gets worse restore to old number or do another auto tune. If the loco lost pickup during auto tune I imagine the number will be useless. You could try removing the chip and and powering the motor contacts direct with DC! Dave. Hi Dave How do yo get the keeper plate off....? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 At each end there is e protrusion on the bogie centres that clips through the end plate. you need to push a small screwdriver in and twist to open the slot and allow the plate to pop up and away from the rear axle. Then, lifting the rear of the plate, move it forward to unclip the front one. Note which side the insulated wheel are on. Hope this helps. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said: I have tried the autotune on ESU V4 L decoders I have, and personally I don't rate it at all, it has always made my locos run worse and left me with a lot of faff to get running smoothly again. In fact one of my locos has been out of use for some months now because of autotune, which completely resetting the decoder to factory defaults has not undone either. It gave my HST the maximum speed of a class 08. 3 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said: May I say that there is a lesson to be had here. Record the CVs I suggest when you first put a loco on the track. It may save you a lot of grief later. I have a little chart I record all of mine in and then record changes made as well. Keeping a history. Dave. JMRI is the easiest way to back up CVs. Just read them all in (& it stores them in a folder full of .xml files so you can back up the entire folder ). If they get changed another way (such as Autotune), you can easily restore them. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 14 hours ago, Vortexwake said: Hi guys Thanks for your time I have run the locomotive on dc and it runs Just fine no stuttering at all my other dc c locomotive also run just Fine too I will try I try and reprogram some cv's from the esu decoder tips and Tricks paper work I have found on the net Steve On DC the loco will get direct voltage of a type put out by your DC controller and likely will run smoothly. On DCC it gets PWM voltage at the frequency dictated by the decoder CV settings, which could also modify the motor PID characteristics (another settings black art). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 13 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said: It gave my HST the maximum speed of a class 08. JMRI is the easiest way to back up CVs. Just read them all in (& it stores them in a folder full of .xml files so you can back up the entire folder ). If they get changed another way (such as Autotune), you can easily restore them. Does JMRI work on mobile phones and tablets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 35 minutes ago, dasatcopthorne said: Does JMRI work on mobile phones and tablets? It depends what you mean. It needs a connection to a command system. Your system can be your main system, like an ECoS, Lenz 100, NCE Powerpro/Powercab, or Sprog. These need either a serial or USB port. JMRI itself then runs on a computer (Windows, Mac, Linux) & this is where al the settings are stored. Even a Raspberry PI will work. The command system treats the JMRI host similar to another throttle. You can connect to JMRI's withrottle from a tablet or phone via wifi & drive trains from it. This also needs additional network support which will already be there if you are running it from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortexwake Posted May 24, 2021 Author Share Posted May 24, 2021 Hi guys Thanks for posting, i cleaned the inner wheels and checked the pick ups And no joy I'm going to put aside for awhile and enjoy my layout. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said: It depends what you mean. It needs a connection to a command system. Your system can be your main system, like an ECoS, Lenz 100, NCE Powerpro/Powercab, or Sprog. These need either a serial or USB port. JMRI itself then runs on a computer (Windows, Mac, Linux) & this is where al the settings are stored. Even a Raspberry PI will work. The command system treats the JMRI host similar to another throttle. You can connect to JMRI's withrottle from a tablet or phone via wifi & drive trains from it. This also needs additional network support which will already be there if you are running it from home. My point was that you assume the OP has a PC etc. able to run JMRI. Maybe he uses a tablet or smartphone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 Just now, Richard Croft said: It’s a fair assumption to think someone will have a PC though. Not these days, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortexwake Posted May 24, 2021 Author Share Posted May 24, 2021 Hi guys I do have a pc how would I connect this Jeri to it....? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, Vortexwake said: I do have a pc how would I connect this Jeri to it....? 1 - you need a computer to DCC system adaptor. For your Gaugemaster system, Gaugemaster sell a USB adaptor, list price of £63. It may work (but might not): its only been tested on the "Advance" not the "Express" version of the system (MRC are awkward sods and won't release much information on their system to the JMRI developers. MRC make the stuff Gaugemaster badge for the UK). So, for about the same money you could buy a Sprog with a power supply and use that as your programming to computer interface. (Do NOT connect the Sprog to the same bits of track as your Gaugemaster system. If you use the same rails, physically disconnect the system not in use, power-off isn't enough). 2 - Software is JMRI (Java Model Railroad Interface). Its open source software, comes from www.jmri.org Download and install it on a computer that's connected to the DCC setup established in (1). 3 - Practise using the DecoderPro bits of JMRI on a simpler decoder installed in a loco. Something basic without sound, but preferably from a recognised decoder maker. Because the LokSound V4/V5 are by far the most complicated decoders on sale, and will take ages to read in all the CVs in the decoder, so its better to learn a few basics before jumping into the deep end! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortexwake Posted May 24, 2021 Author Share Posted May 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Nigelcliffe said: 1 - you need a computer to DCC system adaptor. For your Gaugemaster system, Gaugemaster sell a USB adaptor, list price of £63. It may work (but might not): its only been tested on the "Advance" not the "Express" version of the system (MRC are awkward sods and won't release much information on their system to the JMRI developers. MRC make the stuff Gaugemaster badge for the UK). So, for about the same money you could buy a Sprog with a power supply and use that as your programming to computer interface. (Do NOT connect the Sprog to the same bits of track as your Gaugemaster system. If you use the same rails, physically disconnect the system not in use, power-off isn't enough). 2 - Software is JMRI (Java Model Railroad Interface). Its open source software, comes from www.jmri.org Download and install it on a computer that's connected to the DCC setup established in (1). 3 - Practise using the DecoderPro bits of JMRI on a simpler decoder installed in a loco. Something basic without sound, but preferably from a recognised decoder maker. Because the LokSound V4/V5 are by far the most complicated decoders on sale, and will take ages to read in all the CVs in the decoder, so its better to learn a few basics before jumping into the deep end! Thank you great info I will need to save some money for it. Hi guys I do have a pc how would I connect this Jeri to it....? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted May 24, 2021 Share Posted May 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Vortexwake said: Thank you great info I will need to save some money for it. Hi guys I do have a pc how would I connect this Jeri to it....? Steve The component you need is this: https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/gaugemaster-dcc55.html It seems a lot of money for a cable. It plugs straight in to a USB port. I would be very surprised if you have a computer without USB. It has been a standard type of connection since the late 1990s. Once JMRI is installed, you need to select the USB port (it may see several) & system type (Prodigy) & the 2 should be able to communicate. Be wary of Nigel's advice about it not having been tested though. You may be better off with a Sprog2, which is essentially a control system without any high level power output or throttles. This makes it a great programming device & it is designed to be used with a computer-based system so the connecting cable will be a lot less than £63. The advantage with having a separate system for programming is that it does not shut down the layout while you read/write CVs. The disadvantage of a separate system is you cannot use features like a throttle on your phone/tablet, you can't create a control panel for the points on your computer & you can't program decoders while they are running. I find this useful because if you only ever program them using JMRI, you only need to read them in once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortexwake Posted May 25, 2021 Author Share Posted May 25, 2021 (edited) Hi guys good news...! I cleaned the pick ups again and tried another cv8 reset and bingo It now runs very well don't understand how the reset didn't work before Unless it didn't have good contact with my program track but hey ho I am a happy camper...! Steve Whilst I think on it what are the most important cv Too record...? Thanks to all who posted. Edited May 25, 2021 by Vortexwake Info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BoD Posted May 25, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Vortexwake said: Whilst I think on it what are the most important cv Too record...? Preferably all of them if you have the facilities mentioned above but failing that... ... the ones you are about to change. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted May 25, 2021 Share Posted May 25, 2021 1 hour ago, BoD said: Preferably all of them if you have the facilities mentioned above but failing that... ... the ones you are about to change. Agreed. And if running the LokSound Auto-tune feature, understand which CVs that feature will be changing. Note the values before starting so you've somewhere to go back to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasatcopthorne Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 23 hours ago, Vortexwake said: Hi guys good news...! I cleaned the pick ups again and tried another cv8 reset and bingo It now runs very well don't understand how the reset didn't work before Unless it didn't have good contact with my program track but hey ho I am a happy camper...! Steve Whilst I think on it what are the most important cv Too record...? Thanks to all who posted. As I said a few messages back. 2, 3, 4 5, 6 (not in a V5) 54, 63, 64, 65. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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