Midland Engines in the West Riding?

[1165Valour]

I've been going on a West Riding binge for the past few months, and I finally decided to increase my knowledge of the Midland lines in the area. After looking at the several threads on this site covering the Midland Railway's unbuilt West Riding Lines connecting Dewsbury and Bradford, I wanted to ask: assuming they had been built, what engines would have been common sights on them?

Edited May 31, 2021 by GWRSwindon

[Nick Holliday]

Facetious answer - any Midland Railway locomotive (apart from Big Bertha).  

Mostly it will depend on the type of traffic that the proposed line was going to carry.  There were some goods-only Midland lines in West Yorkshire, which would have only seen 0-6-0 tender and tank locos, and elsewhere larger 4-4-0's would be unlikely, unless the line created a major through route.  The famous Heckmondwike layout of the North London P4 Group was based on such an imaginary through route, http://www.thenlg.org.uk/heckmondwike.html and articles on it will show the sort of locos they thought would be used.

Of course that assumes that you are looking at pre-grouping or shortly thereafter.  Presumably LMS Standard types would appear, together with indigenous L&YR types would have appeared, followed by BR Standards after nationalisation.

This video may be interesting, although I don't know if you'll be able to view it in the USA.

http://scalefournorth.org/heckmondwike

Edited May 31, 2021 by Nick Holliday
Addition of video footage reference

[1165Valour]

19 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

Facetious answer - any Midland Railway locomotive (apart from Big Bertha).  

Mostly it will depend on the type of traffic that the proposed line was going to carry.  There were some goods-only Midland lines in West Yorkshire, which would have only seen 0-6-0 tender and tank locos, and elsewhere larger 4-4-0's would be unlikely, unless the line created a major through route.  The famous Heckmondwike layout of the North London P4 Group was based on such an imaginary through route, http://www.thenlg.org.uk/heckmondwike.html and articles on it will show the sort of locos they thought would be used.

Of course that assumes that you are looking at pre-grouping or shortly thereafter.  Presumably LMS Standard types would appear, together with indigenous L&YR types would have appeared, followed by BR Standards after nationalisation.

This video may be interesting, although I don't know if you'll be able to view it in the USA.

http://scalefournorth.org/heckmondwike

It's good to hear I could run whatever I like!

 

@Compound2632Do you have anything to add?

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, GWRSwindon said:

It's good to hear I could run whatever I like!

 

@Compound2632Do you have anything to add?

But not GWR Swindon built locos!

[1165Valour]

30 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

But not GWR Swindon built locos!

Touché!

 

In fairness, I made this account a few years back when I was still an avid GWR fan. While I do still like it, I've since started focusing my attention on the GCR.

[Compound2632]

4 hours ago, GWRSwindon said:

 

@Compound2632Do you have anything to add?

 

No, except to observe that the general problem with modelling imaginary lines, either physically or just in your head, is that they have to be populated with locomotives and rolling stock that was actually in use elsewhere, unless one is prepared to take the next step of imagining extra examples of given classes, or even entirely new classes. 

[burgundy]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

No, except to observe that the general problem with modelling imaginary lines, either physically or just in your head, is that they have to be populated with locomotives and rolling stock that was actually in use elsewhere, unless one is prepared to take the next step of imagining extra examples of given classes, or even entirely new classes. 

The other option - to  my mind more interesting - is to extend the life of real locos that had actually been scrapped by that date. That is just as valid a way to increase the overall roster of locos and rolling stock. 

Best wishes 

Eric 

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, burgundy said:

The other option - to  my mind more interesting - is to extend the life of real locos that had actually been scrapped by that date. That is just as valid a way to increase the overall roster of locos and rolling stock. 

 

That's an option for a bucolic Sussex branch line but not for a supposed section of an Anglo-Scottish main line!

[burgundy]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That's an option for a bucolic Sussex branch line but not for a supposed section of an Anglo-Scottish main line!

The principle still holds good. You run a loco that would otherwise have been cascaded down to more secondary services. You don't need to invent additional locos; you just become a little more flexible with the dates. 

Best wishes 

Eric 

PS Yes. It works very well for quiet branches!  

[Curlew]

Didn't the Midland export 100 or so outside framed 0-6-0s to Italy early in the C20, which lasted a long time thereafter? That could otherwise have left the Midland with another 100 locos, even if it passed the headache of where to find extra locos on to the Italians. With a new boiler every now and then, these rugged machines could probably have carried on a tough life forever and a day.

[Compound2632]

29 minutes ago, Curlew said:

Didn't the Midland export 100 or so outside framed 0-6-0s to Italy early in the C20, which lasted a long time thereafter? That could otherwise have left the Midland with another 100 locos, even if it passed the headache of where to find extra locos on to the Italians. With a new boiler every now and then, these rugged machines could probably have carried on a tough life forever and a day.

 

Fifty, to the Rete Mediterranea in 1906 - nationalised as part of FS by the time the sale was complete. The first withdrawal was in 1913 and the last in 1930. In Britain, the last big round of withdrawals was in the early 30s, leaving just a handful of survivors to stagger on into the late 40s, retained because of the weight restriction on the Halesowen branch's Dowery Dell viaduct.