Colchester c1950 4mm/OO gauge

[PaulG]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

I think this topic is in the wrong area. It would get much better visibility in Layout Topics. Please consider asking the mods to move it.

 

 

Thank you for your comment.

 

I assumed "Modelling Questions, help & tips" was the best place, but never sure.

 

Paul

[PaulG]

On a wet, windy and cold Sunday afternoon in North Norfolk,  time to try and sort the two Colchester down signals,  which were located at the Ipswich end of the Up platform (see post and photos above).

 

The more simple gantry is GER, so timber posts, arms etc, whilst the other is LNER. 

 

The following books give some guidance of signal arm spacing, both horizontal and vertical, and as I have a topographical survey of the station, I know the overal widths of both structures.

 

 

So this is the sketch I've made, and from which I've ordered parts from Wizard Models.

 

 

Unfortunately, they don't have the wider LNER platform (on left), or an etching for support metalwork.

 

 

Has anyone ideas of an alternative supplier? I know most of Dan Pinnock's (D & S Models) signalling items went to Wizard.

 

As usual, any help and advise much appreciated.  

 

Paul

Edited December 6, 2023 by PaulG

[Bucoops]

@Steve Hewitt may be able to offer some advice on finding something?

[Steve Hewitt]

On 06/12/2023 at 09:01, Bucoops said:

@Steve Hewitt may be able to offer some advice on finding something?

Hi Paul,

 

I'm afraid I can't help with regards to alternative suppliers of etches.

 

Looking at your sketch, I would have thought you could make all the structure, as seen in the front view, from standard MSE etches.  Look at S008/3 for the large bracket, and S0021 or S0024/2 should give you enough to cobble the arch structure.

The main posts would be either S0020 if you want the taper, or Alan Gibson 4M62 if you want them parallel.

 

Without a plan view I can't see what you would expect to find in terms of etches.

Personally, I would expect to make all the walkways from Brass Strip for the supporting "Iron Work", with wood strip for the walking surfaces and Lace Pins for the handrail stanchions with 0.3mm N/S wire for the Handrail itself.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Steve Hewitt

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/59687-semaphore-signals-4mm-scale-mainly/

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/177988-beattock-00-finescale/

 

[PaulG]

1 hour ago, Steve Hewitt said:

Hi Paul,

 

I'm afraid I can't help with regards to alternative suppliers of etches.

 

Looking at your sketch, I would have thought you could make all the structure, as seen in the front view, from standard MSE etches.  Look at S008/3 for the large bracket, and S0021 or S0024/2 should give you enough to cobble the arch structure.

The main posts would be either S0020 if you want the taper, or Alan Gibson 4M62 if you want them parallel.

 

Without a plan view I can't see what you would expect to find in terms of etches.

Personally, I would expect to make all the walkways from Brass Strip for the supporting "Iron Work", with wood strip for the walking surfaces and Lace Pins for the handrail stanchions with 0.3mm N/S wire for the Handrail itself.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Steve Hewitt

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/59687-semaphore-signals-4mm-scale-mainly/

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/177988-beattock-00-finescale/

 

 

Hi Steve

 

Thank you for your comments which are most helpful.

 

For the LNE signal top landing, Wizard Models etch "SO43/5 6’6″ pitch landing for three-doll bracket signals" looked about the correct dimensions, but is currently out of stock. However, this etch only provides for the deck, not the support structure and I couldn't find any suitable (62mm/15') 3-doll  cantilever lattice work.

 

I did have a look at S008/3: 19′ 4-doll Cantilever Lattice Signal Bracket for the top landing as an alternative as you suggest, but was not sure if it would be possible to cut it back from a four-to three doll. However, from your comments it's probably my best option - but probably something to start after Christmas!

 

Again, many thanks for your help.

Paul

[Steve Hewitt]

Thanks Paul, please let me know how you get on.

 

All the best,

Steve.

[PaulG]

On 07/12/2023 at 20:17, Steve Hewitt said:

Thanks Paul, please let me know how you get on.

 

All the best,

Steve.

Hi Steve 

 

Sorry to trouble you, but a little advice please.

 

I'm making the GER S&F gantry first. I have the Wizard two doll bracket, consisting of timber walkway, two side timbers and single metal bracket.

 

It looks to me from photos the:

 

The single metal bracket sits central to post.

The two side timbers fix onto the side of the post, supporting the timber walkway.

 

See photo (view from underneath).

 

 

But looking at the Colchester photos the metal bracket appears wrong, as more of the bracket is visible, ie set lower.

 

Should there be an additional long timber member between the metal bracket and walkway slats? There is nothing else in the kit or reference material.

 

Structurally, I would have thought the metal bracket should tie in with the two members bolted to the post, not just the walkway slats. 

 

Any thoughts much appreciated. 

 

Paul

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi Paul,

 

I think on the prototype the horizontal arm of the bracket would have had extensions out to each side, so that it supported the weight of the timber "Trimmers" and in turn the dolls etc.

On the model, just drop the bracket down the post until the top of the Horizontal arm is level with the lower edge of the Trimmers. The fact they are not actually supported will be invisible on the layout.

 

Best wishes,

 

Steve.

[PaulG]

35 minutes ago, Steve Hewitt said:

Hi Paul,

 

I think on the prototype the horizontal arm of the bracket would have had extensions out to each side, so that it supported the weight of the timber "Trimmers" and in turn the dolls etc.

On the model, just drop the bracket down the post until the top of the Horizontal arm is level with the lower edge of the Trimmers. The fact they are not actually supported will be invisible on the layout.

 

Best wishes,

 

Steve.

 

Hi Steve

 

Thank you for your comment.

 

I have "a few (!)" railway books and scanned 100s of photos, and as you say, it looks like the bracket had flanges to support the two beams.

 

Although not the same as Colchester, this is the best I could find and appears to show a "flange" fixing to beams.

 

 

The kit.

The two beams are brass, so I'm minded to solder a very thin shim of copper joining the pair of beams, and then solder the bracket to the shim.

 

That should make the construction strong enough if my shaky hands knock the post!

 

Kind regards

Paul

[PaulG]

A bit of time today to get out into the model railway shed and make a start on the easier GE (M&H) signal, the parts are from Wizard  models - some former Dan Pinnock (D&S Models) kits.

 

The signal posts are cast white metal, everything else is etched brass.  The bracket is in two parts, and a fiddle to make, and I had a source a very, (very) thin shim of copper to enable the bracket to connect to the two tie beams, each of which have to be folded to create thickness. 

 

I have drilled and used track pin to secure the posts to the deck, and when all the handrails are in place will superglue the white metal parts.

 

In the photos the elements are only a "force fit", until I make up the railings etc., hence not 100% level/right angle etc. The signal is fixed to a brass tube for wires to pass through baseboard and connect to servos for operation.

 

Paul

[PaulG]

J20 E4687 progress.

I haven't found any more photographs of the loco as E4687, other than the one posted above, but a bit of progress on the secondhand part built kit.

 

 

I've added the various detail parts missing, thanks to Chris Stapleton at Precision Paints, albeit Chris didn't have any snifting valves, so I had to "steal" them from an N7 kit in the drawer. Just the balance weights to add to the loco wheels. The tender is still work in progress, with handrail and lamp irons to add, then primer and see how it looks. 

 

It's a very old model, but measures well against the GERS drawings, so will be a good addition to Colchester 1950s, and clearly nobody will produce a RTR model - "famous last words?". 

 

Paul

[PaulG]

A bit more progress on the J20.

 

Having looked at the photo above, I noticed the whistle was missing and safety valves in wrong place !

 

On the tender, I've now added the grab rails, lamp irons, vacuum pipe, removed left-hand side tool box, added brake handle and carved out a lot of the whitemetal under the loco running plate so coupling rods rotate. 

 

I thought I'd got the "build" element completed when I took this photo, until I noticed the "dome" at the back of the tender, part of the tender water scoop apparatus, which J20 tenders didn't have. 

 

 

What a "b....r" to remove. It was solid white metal, and very difficult  to access without damaging other details.

 

Paul 

 

 

[PaulG]

According to Yeadon's E4687 was the only member of the J20 class to be given an E prefix number and BRITISH RAILWAYS, in full on the tender. But the only photograph I have been able to find is this one copied from Yeadon's, which is not very clear in terms of lettering style, both cab-side and buffer-beam.

 

 

Would it be safe to say the style would be identical to B12 E1555 seen below, including lettering on buffer beam?

 

 

Any comments much appreciated.

Paul

[PaulG]

At last the J20 E4687 is finished and arrives on shed.

 

 

 

GER 0-6-0 line up: McGowan J20, J19 converted from a Hornby B12 by my friend Roger Kingstone, BEC J17 - eBay purchase which needed a "little" tlc and Hornby J15, which I must get around to adding tarpaulin rail.

 

 

Now back to signals. 

 

Paul