Dymented - the Serious stuff starts!

[Nick C]

How about these things? I've never tried them, but they look like what you've described...

 

https://www.modeltech.uk/product-page/ho-oo-protrack-rail-aligner-standard

[Philou]

@Nick C Yes, that's the sort of thing. The club uses 'solid' copper faced board and then cut out the shape of the sleepers and their webbing with a cutting disk on a mini-tool. As a whole bunch get to work on the joiners, it takes no time to produce a fair few. I dare say cost comes into play as a sheet of copper faced board costs very little - apparently. They have a 'source' ;).

 

Onto today's happenings: I went to bed feeling ever so pleased regarding the curves that I had cut out during the day - you know the saying pride comes before a fall? Oh yes. I realised that the glue-pads I had so carefully glued and screwed (and by now set hard) were going to interfere on the one piece crossing the join between two modules AND wouldn't allow the fitting of a point motor underneath.

 

As my meeting this morning was finished before time, I found myself recutting the one piece differently so as to avoid conflict - except that I handed it wrongly and it was third time lucky - ho hum.

 

Tomorrow, I shall place all the parts and get started doing the gradients - what could possibly go wrong? I'll let you know :).

 

Cheers everyone and enjoy your weekend,

 

Philip

Edited September 2, 2023 by Philou
Missing word!

[lezz01]

On the whole single sided copper clad is reasonably cheap. As an example.

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124959296039

I had a look on Amazon as well but it's much more expensive on there.

Regards Lez.

[Philou]

@lezz01 I did reply yesterday, but it seems to have disappeared into the ether! At £4 per sheet it doesn't seem expensive at all - look at all the zillions - er - hundreds of sleepers that could be cut from £20-worth.

 

Today petered out as Mrs Philou was supposed to be going to her sister's place with my grandson, but her sister and hubby decided to come over instead. Pleasant lunch and some cool white wine later means I'm no good to do any woodworking this afternoon - besides it's far too hot again! I shall start in the fresh tomorrow.

 

Cheers everyone and enjoy the rest of today and take profit of the warm weather that's coming your way.

 

Philip

[lezz01]

Yes it's not too bad a price at all is it? I buy all my copper clad in sheets and cut it on a guillotine from a stationery shop. I use double sided 0.4mm thick for 3x2mm pads soldered to 0.9mm square nickel silver bar for stretcher bars and if I need sleepers or crossing timbers I use single sided 1.6mm all cut from 300x200mm sheet stock. It's way cheaper than buying ready cut stuff. I all cuts really well with the guillotine. It also cuts ply crossing timbers to length really well too.

Here it is in action cutting crossing timbers.

It was a really good investment. It really good for plasticard as well.

Regards Lez.   

Edited September 3, 2023 by lezz01

[5BarVT]

3 hours ago, lezz01 said:

It really good for plasticard as well.

Long straight lines are where I always go wrong wh3n cutting with a blade and straight edge, so I like that as an idea.  How thick plasticard can you cut before it deforms when cutting, and how narrow a strip?

Paul.

[lezz01]

It'll handle 20 thou well, I haven't used it on anything thicker. I mostly use it for copper clad and ply. I'm not sure how thin a piece of plastic it will cut but I can cut 0.4mm double sided copper clad down to 2mm without issues.

Regards Lez. 

[Philou]

Regarding the guillotine, that does look worthwhile investment - I never thought I needed one! The club does have a very small version with an exceedingly sharp blade that will do fine cuts in plasticard. Next time I'm up the club I'll ask for details.

 

Today was rather a back-breaking, knee-bending sort of day. I was working IN the tunnel area - luckily I'm not too corpulent and I just about limboed and shimmied up and in between the cross-members. By holding my breath and sucking in my belly I managed to squeeze through the 300mm gaps - now why didn't I foresee having to do that?!

 

All the track-bed within the tunnel is laid to levels and screwed down - I haven't glued anything as I keep thinking, 'Will I need to dismantle that bit later for whatever reason?' I hope I won't.

 

I also have some photos. They show the green underlay in place, but it's not yet glued as I need to find out how to fix Cobalt point motors in place - I have one somewhere but I can't find it the moment. Perhaps I'll need to take out the relevant pieces to do it.

 

Here we go:

 

 

^ This shows the triangle leading into the sector plate/fiddle yard. In the background is the exit of the tunnel towards Pontrilas (it should be Colwall - but there you go - Rule 1 and all). Even though not terribly noticeable, unless there's a bubble, there is a downward grade from the right and continues to the fiddle yard. Across the top, towards the tunnel exit, the grade bottoms out between the two 'arms' and then rises to the exit. The left arm follows a similar pattern rising out of the fiddle yard towards the tunnel exit. The two arms of the triangle never meet, hence avoiding any possible short circuits caused by reverse loops.

 

 

^ This is the centre section showing one of the two Y-points in place (the other is just outside the tunnel exit in the photo above).

 

 

This is the curve leading back towards the Ledbury tunnel mouth - again all graded as required. This is the part I laid first this morning - three hours later(!) I still hadn't sorted the gradient. I couldn't get rid of an unwanted hog in the curve. Finally found a slight lip on the one module causing the part to tip backwards when screwed down and it being fixed at one end was making it bow. A few minutes sanding had that sorted! In the afternoon, it was all fairly plain sailing. What took longest was ensuring that all the riser packing pieces (there are two in the photo) were set at their proper levels, once done, that was that!

 

Tomorrow, I'm tackling the Pontrilas side of the tunnel where the track diverges from single to double and there's also a non-parallel siding that rises alongside acting as a catch siding for runaways (IIRC there's a picture of a very sad looking 2-8-0 laying on its side after using it in anger). This graded section should be quite long between the tunnel mouth and the protecting signal box further uphill - about a 1/4 mile, I think - but compression means that the modelled distance won't be more than about 1.0m (1/440th of the distance!).

 

More tomorrow chums and chumesses,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Chimer]

A track!  A track!  I've seen a track ......

 

Really enjoying following you Philou 🙂

[Philou]

54 minutes ago, Chimer said:

A track!  A track!  I've seen a track ......

 

YAY!!

 

I was also going to add in the earlier post, that some of the moves I did, would have stretched even poor old Twizzle. :))

Edited September 4, 2023 by Philou

[Philou]

This is for my mate @Chimer (stop peeking you others!). Did you want to see more track? Did you? Did you? We have more track just loose laid on the latest bit of work:

 

 

^ It was rather too hot late this afternoon to continue and my knees were aching due to the heat and all the knees up mother Brown yesterday. I did manage to cut out the next two pieces of ply plus the underlay and just placed them on my work table for the photo. Tomorrow things will be in a proper context.

 

This is the view looking towards the eastern portal of Ledbury tunnel. The tunnel mouth will be at the limit of the end of the trackbed in the distance. I know the signal box is incorrect, but it's the only one that I've got. Here the trackwork will be in a cutting and the signal box protected by retaining walls set at an angle so that the signalman can see the tunnel and the signalling.

 

The points have been placed overlaying each other as I intend to set the trackwork at 45mm centres, but the crossover rails need to be cut back to achieve this narrowing. I've done it before, but not where curved pointwork is concerned. As they're Peco large radii points the curve is fairly gentle and it doesn't look too bad just laid out. I'm sure there'll be a lot of fettling to do. I don't want to overdo it either as they're somewhat expensive to replace!

 

 

^ This is the view from the tunnel towards Pontrilas and the River Dore overbridge. The catch siding/sand drag protecting the tunnel is nearest the camera. There are two pairs of crossovers - the one nearest the camera is the double to single pointwork and the pair furthest away is the assisting locomotive release, where the banking loco would return back to Ledbury. I assume there would have been a token working arrangement here, though I've never seen it mentioned.

 

I shall have to ask Mike @The Stationmaster later, if he can propose a signalling arrangement eventually. From a photo I have of a freight plus banker coming out of the tunnel, there seems to be a fixed distant on entering the tunnel with another signal on the opposite side - unfortunately as it is the back of the signal and the size is very small, I can't tell if it's a distant or home. I'll also need to know what would have happened signalling-wise to allow the assisting loco to stop and then return back to base - all for later.

 

That's it chums and chumesses for today - more tomorrow.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

 

 

[5BarVT]

22 hours ago, Philou said:

I assume there would have been a token working arrangement here, though I've never seen it mentioned.

No tokens Ledbury to Colwall.  The tokenless block system I believe was originally Ledbury to Colwall and moved to Malvern Wells when Colwall closed.  There were only three machines by my time in Reading - one in Ledbury, one in Malvern Wells and one spare in Caversham Road.  Nor sure whether it is still the method of operation now, and if it is where the spare now lives.

Paul.

 

For Colwall read Ledbury North End.

Edited September 6, 2023 by 5BarVT
Ledbury North End

[Philou]

@5BarVT Thanks for that. I just had it in mind that seeing as the tunnel is single tracked and that trains on the up line (London direction) do wait at Ledbury until the train in the down direction has arrived and cleared the tunnel. I will say that when I lived in Ledbury and caught the HST (full fat one) to London, I wasn't aware of any tokens (but then I didn't know about anything of the real railway in the 1990s).

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Nick C]

The SRS diagram only shows the fixed distant at the tunnel mouth, then the home on the 'box side of the bridge.

 

https://s-r-s.org.uk/html/gws/S2619.htm - or if the direct link doesn't work, linked from https://s-r-s.org.uk/html/GWDiagrams.htm

[5BarVT]

3 hours ago, Nick C said:

The SRS diagram only shows the fixed distant at the tunnel mouth, then the home on the 'box side of the bridge.

 

https://s-r-s.org.uk/html/gws/S2619.htm - or if the direct link doesn't work, linked from https://s-r-s.org.uk/html/GWDiagrams.htm

It doesn’t need to be (and isn’t) a fixed distant as there is no token to slow down to drop off.  At only 270 yards from distant to stop you would need the help of the gradient at any appreciable speed!  Right hand mounting of the distant signal will have been deliberate to give as much sighting distance as possible from within the tunnel.

The SRS diagram shows enough to get an idea of the method of working the banker back (assuming it came off at North End rather than further on).  Drop off the back of the train, reverse through the crossover, and the section signal will let you back onto the single line.  If a path wasn’t available until later, go into the spur until time, then back out behind the section signal and away.  That would make a nice little operating scenario.

Paul.

[Philou]

@Nick C Ooooh ............. thank you for that link, it did work! I can see that I have to add at least two trap points just in the area alone plus another further along. There are also three ground signals plus a SRI. Now which shall I have 15mph or 25mph? I don't think I shall have enough length to place all the signals shown - however, there's no reason that they couldn't be part of the signalling leading into Pontrilas.

 

BTW, here's an extract of a colour photo that post-dates 1948  (number on smokebox) that contradicts the SRS drawing placing the Home signal between the bridge and the tunnel. I won't show the whole photo as it's one I borrowed off the internet for this project and I never thought to note the author. The original taker of the photo may well be long gone!

 

LedburyTunnelEast.doc

 

@5BarVT I see what you mean regarding the fixed distant, but would it not have been more of an indicator of being prepared to stop at Ledbury? I like your thinking regarding the banker scenario - clever. It must have been used occasionally as there's a ground signal at the spur exit. I can see that I'm going to have to source a heck of a lot of signals, both post and ground. A great pity the Ratio signal kits, as were, are no longer available.

 

Here is a small selection of some that I prepared for Ledbury during lockdown. The kits I bought in the late 70s and the plastic had become brittle. Though I have put LEDs to light them, they shall probably remain non-operating. I'll just have of a mixture of them being either at danger or at right of way.

 

 

 

 

 

Well chums and chumesses, today was a, shall we say, frustrating day. Despite having measured everything and carefully cut to specific radii for the next section over the A465/River Dore, it just wouldn't join up with what I had laid down in the tunnel area. Notwithstanding, I fettled and trimmed and cut an infill section and it now fits. I didn't take a photo as it was hot and getting late and I didn't want to rush things as it seemed to be fitting together. Tomorrow morning I shall pack from underneath to set the levels and then screw into place. I shall take a photo then.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

[Philou]

I have an additional question regarding ground signals (shows how little I know about these things), were these actuated via the point tie-bar or off a lever - I had assumed the former.

[Nick C]

14 hours ago, Philou said:

BTW, here's an extract of a colour photo that post-dates 1948  (number on smokebox) that contradicts the SRS drawing placing the Home signal between the bridge and the tunnel. I won't show the whole photo as it's one I borrowed off the internet for this project and I never thought to note the author. The original taker of the photo may well be long gone!

 

The one problem with those online diagrams is that they're not dated - so you'd have to investigate more to see when any changes happened. The SRS would be the people to ask though!

 

2 hours ago, Philou said:

I have an additional question regarding ground signals (shows how little I know about these things), were these actuated via the point tie-bar or off a lever - I had assumed the former.

Mostly off a lever - I know the GW did have a few that were just point indicators, such as the one on loco release crossover at Helston, but in your case they're all on levers - you can see the numbers on the diagram.

[Philou]

2 hours ago, Nick C said:

you can see the numbers on the diagram

 

I should have gone to Specsavers :)) !! Thanks for the heads-up and additional information.

[lezz01]

I would have said that they were operated via a separate lever. It would all depend on the situation of the GS in relation to point work, FPLs and full size signals. 

Regards Lez. 

[Philou]

Hello chaps and chapesses,

 

I am at last on the approach to Pontrilas. It has taken me most of the morning and a fair few hours this afternoon just to set my trackbed to its correct levels. It surprised me how much a slight waggle on an unsupported end can change a gradient (butterfly wings and all that). I wasn't going to chuck it in but it was getting hotter and hotter and being sat on my bum with arms in the air is not the most comfortable of positions. Both batteries in my mini-tools decided to die within minutes of each other and I was quite happy that that stopped play for today.

 

I finally could see what was happening regarding things that didn't fit - as my 3D plan wasn't amended as it should have been, then it was slightly out of kilter. It has also meant repercussions on gradients entering Pontrilas, but as long as I get back onto a rising grade through the 'tunnel' under the road at the station throat, all will be good.

 

Here are a couple of photos:

 

 

^ This is a view of the River Dore valley enbankment. The combine road and river bridge is approximately in the centre. I haven't put a support there yet as I want to cut out profiles for both the Dore and the A465. Once in place I can then drop a support clear of both (I'm aiming for one in between them).

 

On a side view the gradient looks a tad fierce but I've been checking all afternoon and it is at 1/100 - I think it's an optical illusion.

 

 

^ This the present end of the trackbed left hanging in mid-air. I left it as it was for tonight as I'll need to cut out the next piece of trackbed and then set the levels. In the distance is the summit at the signal box and all goes downhill from there on ;). The pointwork is loosely in place as placeholders and to check that no point motor would foul the packing pieces.

 

 

^ The summit. For those not familiar with the Ledbury to Malvern line, the grade through the tunnel continues for a fair distance behind the camera. Unfortunately, space doesn't permit the 1:76.2 version so the layout will be simply 'inspired by'. In the distance is the mouse-hole leading from this module to the next. The model grade entering the tunnel is at 1/60 whereas the real thing is 1/80. The tunnel mouth will be just in line with the Big Beam overhead.

 

One thing that has become apparent in just laying the trackbed, is that I'm going to have to do the scenic modelling on the wall side first, then do the tracklaying and ballasting and finish off operating well side. It'll be much easier for me whilst having access standing in between the cross-members rather than trying to stretch. In any case, the Mark I eyeball is very good at laying curved track if you can view it low down - which I shan't be able to do if the landscape is all done.

 

That's it for today.

 

Keep well,

 

Philip

 

 

[Philou]

Hello chums and chumesses,

 

A nail-biting day for me today as I decided to cut out the trackbed for Pontrilas station. Firstly was the cutting out of a 7.5m radius curve as the station on the prototype is curved. This took me the best part of the morning to set out as a series of straight lines and off-sets (there is a very handy maths calculator on the t'intertubes). Then it was setting out the goods yard side which too is on a curve which was another set of off-sets. Anyway, late this afternoon, it was all marked and cut out. I hurried upstairs with this big piece of mis-shapened ply and plonked it down were it ought to go. It didn't fit!

 

It's again the problem of following two plans that don't quite agree but it isn't any thing that I can't put right, just a question of 15mins with the jigsaw and that should be that! If it looks correct tomorrow, then there'll be some pictures. The levels seem to work though, so it's not all doom and gloom!

 

I have another question for you today: I have a photo of a large ex-GWR 4-6-0 arriving Pontrilas from the Hereford direction on a nice summer's day, pulling six coaches - seem to be blood'n'custard as it's the early 50s (style of clothes and an 0-4-2T waiting to head off for Hay-on-Wye). The loco could be a Castle or King (4 cylinder jobbie and Kings were permitted on the North-West) but the smoke-box number is not decipherable. I'm getting to the question - the coaches are carrying nameboards - what is the train?

 

More tomorrow,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

Edited September 8, 2023 by Philou
Cor! Read it twice and still some missing words!

[Philou]

Despite my feeling of doom and gloom yesterday, things went rather better today.

 

Hello chaps and chapesses,

 

I worked my little cotton socks off despite the still hot weather we're having (and no, I'm not enjoying it, either). I re-cut the station piece partially where needed as the curve to the sidings was too large. I fettled the area where the platform cuts into the hillside and things were looking much better. My downhill curve from Ledbury North End Signalbox looks as if it will now join up with the station throat. I have to design a curve for that!

 

The rest of the day was cutting out spacers to set the station area at its correct height and level. These were then fixed to my cross-members and voila!! all set up. I have another five to cut first thing tomorrow morning (it's Sunday again!) and fix them to the cross-members too. I CBAd to get my mitre saw out again as it was getting late and I was hot.

 

This is the state of play this evening:

 

 

^ Spacers all set out and fixed - a couple more to be done this end.

 

 

^ This is Pontrilas station platforms in one complete piece with the goods yard area to the right. The platforms will measure approximately 2.1m. The board isn't fixed in place yet so as to give me a bit of wiggle room when I join up the Ledbury section. The station throat with the signal box and the branch-line junction will be on the next piece to the lower left. This section is at 0.5% (1:200) - the prototype was at a grade too. I did have the correct profile of the track that Mike @The Stationmaster kindly sent me, plus a load of other information, but the whole lot disappeared in my harddrive failure of some time ago.

 

 

^ These are the two sections to be joined up - the Dore river valley on the right and the station to the left. In between will be the road 'tunnel'. The circular part jutting out is - I have no idea really. On the old OS sheets, it shows this semi-circular extension to the sidings immediately adjacent to the buffer stops. I think it was just a bit of landforming done when the station yard was being set out. I liked that idea and so I kept it.

 

Happy bunny tonight and more tomorrow.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

 

 

[GWR57xx]

On 08/09/2023 at 17:27, Philou said:

I have another question for you today: I have a photo of a large ex-GWR 4-6-0 arriving Pontrilas from the Hereford direction on a nice summer's day, pulling six coaches - seem to be blood'n'custard as it's the early 50s (style of clothes and an 0-4-2T waiting to head off for Hay-on-Wye). The loco could be a Castle or King (4 cylinder jobbie and Kings were permitted on the North-West) but the smoke-box number is not decipherable. I'm getting to the question - the coaches are carrying nameboards - what is the train?

 

Is the photo from a book, or just a single print?

Could it be an SLS or RCTS Special? They usually carried headboards.

 

[Philou]

@GWR57xx It's a picture I found on the internet. It's an ordinary train calling at Pontrilas. It's definitely not an SLS or RCTS charter as the loco has no headboard - just the coaches. I just can't think of a named train that would have used the North-West route! The picture was taken between 1948 (BR) and 1957 (closure of the Golden Valley line).

 

It may just be the coach nameboards are blank!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip