Dymented - the Serious stuff starts!

[Andy Hayter]

All of the packaging material I have come across has been expanded PS not extruded.

 

Cutting expanded(except with a hot knife cutter)  gives you all of those little balls of plastic that get everywhere; whereas you can cut extruded and create almost no mess.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Andy Hayter

[Nick C]

3 hours ago, Philou said:

 

@Nick C  

Edit: Just had a look and the equivalent is €25.20 per panel - so not terribly more expensive and it's a more handy size of 1.2m x 600mm for stuffing into the Duster. Certainly cheaper than M. le Builders' Merchant! Did you know that EP over here is sold on a m3 basis? Theoretically, whatever the thickness, the volume price should be 'about' the same - and we all know what 'about' means.

That's a quarter of the size though, so over €100 for the same quantity!

[Andy Hayter]

https://www.castorama.fr/panneau-polystyrene-expanse-unimat-120-x-60-cm-ep-50-mm-r-1-30-m-k-w-vendu-au-panneau-/3334160465940_CAFR.prd

 

€6.30 per panel 50mm X 1.2m X 0.6m

[lezz01]

12 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

All of the packaging material I have come across has been expanded PS not extruded.

 

Cutting expanded(except with a hot knife cutter)  gives you all of those little balls of plastic that get everywhere; whereas you can cut extruded and create almost no mess.

Yes granted which is why I have a hot knife cutter, £14.99 eBay no more mess.

Regards Lez.

[Philou]

26 minutes ago, Nick C said:

That's a quarter of the size though, so over €100 for the same quantity!

 

Oh no! I expressed myself badly. The size is smaller granted but the price reflects that, and if you bring the value to the equivalent of the UK 2.4 x 1.2m it works out at €25.20 - as @Andy Hayter has said - €6.30 per small panel.

 

I'm not too bothered about small balls - oo-er missus - I have a special knife for polystyrene that minimises the waste. However, if £14.99 (or equivalent in EUR) is all it costs, then I shall invest in one as I will have some intricate shapes to do too.

 

I did look at extruded, but the price difference was too great to ignore given the area I need to cover, and in any case, most of it will end up being cut up, so a bit of a waste of money really.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[lezz01]

2 hours ago, Philou said:

 

Oh no! I expressed myself badly. The size is smaller granted but the price reflects that, and if you bring the value to the equivalent of the UK 2.4 x 1.2m it works out at €25.20 - as @Andy Hayter has said - €6.30 per small panel.

 

I'm not too bothered about small balls - oo-er missus - I have a special knife for polystyrene that minimises the waste. However, if £14.99 (or equivalent in EUR) is all it costs, then I shall invest in one as I will have some intricate shapes to do too.

 

I did look at extruded, but the price difference was too great to ignore given the area I need to cover, and in any case, most of it will end up being cut up, so a bit of a waste of money really.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

There's one here, it's gone up a bit but it's still under 20 quid.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274810341155?hash=item3ffbf90723:g:arMAAOSwWzNgrR~h&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0JVOrtynzY2x8sm%2FJckR7FjnBUXM5GkOwSYtzpWeo%2FOCqW4UA7FKIFL%2Fej7rwyl4zHb3aE92owfn%2F1r56D7LbizU5Klo05oqMXeveP%2B6VHrJbT%2BymKH3rJJxfdtEHNc6f%2BJahvvoLqbzoxilnmAT9sdmIuArLi%2FvUtJqRWlitAZ3fSolUwxeHIlhiTgtHwmuGbnpn7jZlzA3EsR9O5C9RIirPtv6yi2AnGLMn53yRX5WQ1TlgMER%2BERTVTUAhSx5dyL1CJ7X8zJs2QSfF1taLbE%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6Ls6rzsYg

 Lot's of other options and prices.

Regards Lez.

[Philou]

The weather set the mood for today - wet, windy and dismal. I was going to tackle the green stuff by trimming it to a width that looked right and then chamfering it on the edges. However, I found that it needed a work surface at a height lower than Pontrilas (which is the only large flat area in the layout room) and I didn't much fancy the floor (oh, my aching knees). Mrs Philou gave the OK to come and work indoors provided I made no mess. Trimming wouldn't have done but chamfering would have so done.

 

In the end I had a faff-about afternoon. I wasn't happy regarding the curve of the mainline as it passes over Dymented as the levels were fine but the alignment not so much. I took it apart (all screws - no glue - been there, done that) and rearranged the curves in a different order. I now have something that resembles the plan, but I have one large radius curve to cut (24m) and it should be good. I'll look at it afresh tomorrow and then cut, provided the weather stays dry - but I think it's set for rain all day.

 

One thing I did do that I'm pleased about (silly little thing really), I cut myself a three sided jig ready for when I start track-laying. Using a piece of 3mm ply (the stuff with which I don't quite know what I'm going to use) I now have double track spacing at 45, 50 and 60mm centres. It means I can have straight sections with closer spacings, widening on curves if required and main and relief/siding spacings on one handy little jig.

 

Hopefully all back together again tomorrow!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

@lezz01 I had a look at the one to which you pointed - unfortunately will not deliver here - but as you say there are others and I shall have a look tonight.

[lezz01]

Amazon also have them at around the same sort of prices that eBay do.

Regards Lez.

[Philou]

@lezz01 I had a look - gosh such a choice - the cheapest UK one was £19.99 (plus postage) (similar to the one to which you pointed out to me) to €139.99 here. The more expensive ones seemed to be solid blades similar to an extended Weller hi-heat soldering iron (remember them?) rather than a hot wire. I shall order a hot wire one.

 

More later as the weather was dry for a while this morning so I was able to use my woodworking tools outside - yay! New piece cut and now off to fiddle with the curves.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Philou]

I had a fiddle with the curves but I wasn't as advanced this evening as I thought I should have been. Following an exchange of mails with a fellow RMWebber, I have decided that I shall separate the up and down loops at Pontrilas from the main lines so that they shall be distinct from each other  (in terms of ballasting) rather that have a sea of grey incorporating all of the track. I have been advised that the cess in the 10' was more of an earth finish whereas on the outer edges it was ash and all kept clean even in BR days. So there we have it, three different 'colours' for the formation and ballast: Ash, ballast, earth, ballast, earth, ballast and then ash again. At the outer extremes it'll be grass/greenery. I have plenty of ash from our wood-burner that is now back in action due to the recent wet weather :( .

 

Now that I think I have sorted out the curves (final cut and fix tomorrow) I'm going to use a piece of left-over four track curved plywood and set it all up including colouring and ballasting. Additionally, I shall include canting on the main, whereas the loops weren't, just to see what it looks like as I've seen it done on a module at the club - but it was just too much and looked daft. I might raise the outer edge by 1mm rather than 2mm that would equate to the max cant of 7%. I happen to have some good quality card 1mm thick that I can cut into 2mm wide strips to put under the sleeper edges. It'll also give me an opportunity to ensure that my longest bogied vehicles can pass each other at 45mm centres and adjust if necessary before I lay track down for real.

 

I also recut some of the green stuff into 1 + 2 + 1 and chamfered the edges - it looked better already. It didn't half make a load of dust and I was pleased that I could do it outside - looks awful stuff to get into the lungs =:o .

 

More tomorrow,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

I haven't any pictures today, but if I get the elevated section completed tomorrow then I shall post them up.

[Philou]

Hello chaps and chapesses,

 

The news is good. The elevated section is completed bar a piece of underlay. Bad news is that I didn't take any pictures - they'll have to keep for tomorrow - boo.

 

As the weather was again grim, I amused myself with my jig and four pieces of flexi-track and set out a short section of the 4-track line out of Pontrilas. I set up the pieces on a 1500mm curve at 45mm centres for the main and 60mm for the loops. They were only loose laid but it was just to get a feel of what it could look like. The jig worked, but I had to be gentle as the track was loose so the jig would 'grab' it if I removed it too quickly.

 

The good news was that two Bachmann Hawksworth (or were they Collett) coaches would pass each other with oodles (OK a few millimetres) of clearance. Tomorrow I will dig out my MkV (Class 8xx) coaches and repeat the exercise. I could see them, but they were at the bottom of a rather big container and time was up for me for today. I will also cant the outer rails with some 1mm card and see what effect that has as well. I will report back  with pictures.

 

One thing I have understood is that I shall have to mark out clearly a good centre line to set the track out on a 'proper' curve. I can't say that what was loose-laid was dog-legged, but it could have been better ;).

 

I happened to pass another builders' merchant today in our nearest large village (I usually avoid as his prices are no better than my M. le Builders' Merchant). I asked his prices for 50mm EP and he had some in 500mm x 1.2m sheets (but only 5 sheets) at €5.20 a sheet which is €20.80 equivalent large sheet - now we're talking - and he's having some more delivered soon. So Monday, I shall buy up what's left (couldn't do it today as I was off elsewhere in a rush as usual!).

 

Hopefully lots more tomorrow.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Philou]

Well! Not a lot more today, but we do have some photos. As mentioned yesterday, a short section of the mainline was set up and tested yesterday with Hawksworth coaches. Today, I got the 80x coaches out and they too passed each other with a some air-space between. I had a lightbuld moment with a bit of whataboutery - what about Centenary coaches? These were made to a more generous width by the GWR and out they came and onto the track. No problem with clearance but I was surprised that there was less than the 80x coaches.

 

The whole exercise was repeated but with the track canted by 1mm. All the coaches passed the test run, so I will now do a proper section correctly set out and ballasted - just for fun! :( .

 

I couldn't gather my thoughts properly this afternoon and so I had a tidy-up with dust-pan and brush and all my surfaces are clear of dust and off-cuts ready for the laying of the green stuff in the station areas. I didn't mention yesterday but in realigning the main line, I have gained 50mm on the length of the station area of Dymented - so waggle room in abundance.

 

As I had a little time after the clean-up, I thought I would set out the trackwork through Ledbury station to try and establish the curvature needed as it is very shallow indeed. I think the angle of approach from the viaduct isn't quite as acute as it could have been (only a degree or two) and the curve is shallower than intended - but the Mark I eyeball says that it looks good. I didn't take a photo as the camera was already back indoors, so I'll do one tomorrow. There won't be any work done as it's Sunday and we've visitors who are staying ALL week.

 

Onto some pictures - they're all similar so just a few including the realigned mainline:

 

 

^ The realigned mainline with additional land space at Dymented - it won't make an awful lot of difference but I can align the trackwork in the station more satisfactorily. I did check the headroom for the branchline dive-under!

 

 

^ Here are two Class 80x coaches on the curve - due to the camera angle there doesn't appear to be much space between them - there is about 5mm.

 

 

^ Two Hawksworth (or are they Collett) coaches on the same track but now canted. You can see the 1mm card on the inner left-hand track. All the coaches passed each other without issues. I can't really see a difference between the canted and uncanted tracks on the outer edges - can you? I'll do a short section later and have it decorated just to see what it looks like.

 

Have a good weekend everyone,

 

Philip

 

 

 

 

[Philou]

As mentioned in yesterday's update, not much happened today - in fact, nothing happened. We were invited elsewhere for lunch with our visitors and the weather was not conducive to working away from the warmth of the wood-burner anyway.

 

I did nonetheless take a photo of the loose-laid track running through Ledbury station showing the curve towards the tunnel. Looking at photgraphs of the layout taken from the footbridge, I have a feeling that the curve should be a little sharper - however distortion through the camera lens will have occurred. The OS sheet does show the curve as being shallow. The fact that the curve is relatively flat will help in setting out my proprietary RTP pointwork as I will be able to fudge it more easily and not have to remodel the Peco points - or indeed do some modelling and make my own!!

 

Here is the photo:

 

 

^ Not forgetting that the track is just loose-laid in the photo, you can see the tracks on approach from the viaduct (behind the camera) crossing over Bromyard Road and entering the station on the straight. The junction to the branch will normally be in the centre foreground. The end of the platform is actually slightly short of where the right hand track (the Hereford line) stops. When the rails are laid for real, the track will be double almost to the tunnel mouth.

 

The start of the transition leading to the curve starts within the platform about where the platform begins to slope down forming the ramp some  450mm back from the current end of the Hereford track. The prototype shallow curve continues until it reaches the tunnel mouth and is then straight within the tunnel until it arrives towards the eastern portal and starts to curve again. Compression has dictated that the model tunnel will be curved throughout and naturally the curve to allow this to happen has to start within the confines of the station area.

 

Mrs Philou has reminded me that we have a doctor's appointment tomorrow afternoon, so I think any work will be limited to the morning only :( .

 

Cheers everyone and stay safe,

 

Philip

[Philou]

Not much happened today but I did start to lay out the green underlay starting at the tunnel end. There wasn't enough done to justify a photo so I'll do one tomorrow - hopefully it'll be most of the station yard done.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Philou]

 Well! I had written a large amount of text plus photos and all of a sudden 'Brzzzzt' it all disappeared. Oh well, I'll re-write it tomorrow. I'm using a laptop with a touch pad and it's doing weird things - too much static electrickery in my fingers. Not the first time it's happened either!

 

Update tomorrow with pictures,

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[5BarVT]

We shall wait patiently but with anticipation!

Paul.

[Philou]

Right! I'm back - fingers at the ready. Now, where was I ...........................?

 

Oh yes, 'brzzzzt' and off went everything into the aether, never to be seen again. Here's the jist...................

 

'Hello chums and chumesses,

 

Today (now yesterday, of course) was a very much better day and I started to cut up some green underlay for the track through Ledbury station and yard. I got so far and decided that I should loose-lay the track and points to ensure that nothing was amiss.

 

I started with the main line through the station platforms as there is no pointwork until the eastern throat. I laid out all the ladders not forgetting to overlay ends as necessary (I'm having 45mm centres on the main - about 27mm to trim off eventually). I had to allow for the transition that starts part way along the platforms. As the curve is very gentle - in the order of 20m radius - it helped in setting out the RTP pointwork.

 

Here are some photos:

 

 

^ This the view from the Bromyard Road bridge with the turntable road on the extreme left, cattle dock road and bay platform. The turntable was IIRC a 40' one and I'll need to make the cutout for that and it will protrude into the operating well by about 25mm (1" in old money). There was also a covered coaling stage, GWR-style water tank on brick pillars set into the hillside, a brick-built engineman's (the banker driver and fireman) hut and a corrugated lamp hut.

 

The cattle dock may have moved a bit as it was at one time shown to be mid-way between the turntable and the tunnel. I don't think the bay was ever really used for passengers, though there is an oldish photo showing what may be a workmen's train along there, otherwise it seems to have been somewhere to stock assorted goods wagons.

 

Then come the up and down main held in place with map pins - jolly useful, map pins. To the right is the fan of goods sidings. There are a few photos showing that it was a very busy station at one time. The one shows four locos in steam - two on the main, crossing each other and two shuffling around on the various goods lines.

 

The cattle dock seems to have ended up alongside the signal box with access to it from a fenced off section of the main platform. There was also a side loading dock on the second left siding, adjoining the station building (lower centre right).

 

The stationmaster's house was alongside the station access road (the mis-shapened ply bottom right). Right at the back are other goods lines (see next photo below). The fan of tracks are not complete as I wasn't going to cut track at this stage.

 

 

^ This is the view from the tunnel end. To the left is the goods shed siding. The goods shed was quite substantial being built in clapboard and brick and having two cranes inside for loading/unloading. There was, I think, a third crane outside beyond the goods shed towards the buffers - perhaps for heavier/bulkier items?

 

There are then two storage sidings, the up/down lines (omitted here) plus a further siding to their right. Here waited the assisting engine waiting duties.

 

The ladder that you can see in the near-centre comprises: trailing L/hand, plain crossing, double slip, outside single slip, 3-way and a R/hander. All these were observed (well, my interpretation) on various OS plans and drawings and from a few photographs. If you think I'm wrong - let me know as I can still alter things (see further below).'

 

Today's update: From swinging dodgy upside down day before, today went less well. I cut some more underlay, this time for the goods sidings either side of the platforms and so doing, I thought that I should relay the track and points in place with map pins rather solely by eye as I did yesterday - and that's when the wheels came off.

 

I found that the inner most rail (banker siding) just wouldn't sit square against the foot of the cutting. It's a question of a degree or two but as our guests were off this afternoon due to this approaching storm, my afternoon was curtailed and I'll look at it afresh tomorrow. Nothing is yet fixed so if you think the pointwork is 'off' please do let me know as it can be altered (within limits).

 

One good thing happened yesterday. I called into the other builders' merchant to collect some 50mm EP. Not only was it €5.20 a sheet but he had lots in stock - I took 10 and I'm going back tomorrow to see what's left - yay!

 

Now hopefully I shall hit 'send' and the world should light up .............

 

Cheers everyone and stay safe as this storm seems to have put the wind up (sorry) everyone over here,

 

Philip

Edited November 1, 2023 by Philou
Spulling and a grocers' apoplexy

[lezz01]

London Road Models do a nice 40' TT.

Regards Lez.

[Philou]

Another 'not much happened' day today. I did reset the angle of approach of the double track which seemed to alter things very slightly, but I'm not quite there yet. The other alternative is that I set out the track, taking the long curve into consideration, and trim back a bit on the pre-affixed slopes. I have a nice and sharp Japanese saw that'll have it done in a jiffy - but another look tomorrow in daylight. IF I'm happy with the dry-run, then I'll start glueing the green underlay down followed by a coat of white paint. I can then mark everything out really properly.

 

From Google Earth I was able to determine the curve of the track through Ledbury at about 20mR scale-wise.

 

More tomorrow - not promising any pictures though ;).

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Philou]

@lezz01 Thanks for the heads up regarding London Road Models - I can't honestly say it was on the tip of my tongue! I had a look and their 42' turntable looks to be about right - even though Ledbury was in GWR territory. Mike @The Stationmaster may throw some light on the origins of the turntable as he kindly sent me some photos of the turntable and other bits, that I lost in a hard drive failure - but does look like it. I did also spy a signal box that was entirely built in shiplap that could be adapted for the one at Pontrilas - and the North-West was definitely in LNWR territory. I think you may have successfully spent some money for me! :)

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[lezz01]

Happy to help mate.

Regards Lez.

[lezz01]

I might have a drawing for one as well I seem to remember one in the 19thC railway drawings book.

Regards Lez.

[Philou]

Hello chaps and chapesses,

 

Altogether a better day today. I lifted all the temporarily laid track and started again. I traced out a 24mR curve at the foot of the cutting where the banker siding was. From there, centres were marked at 60, 45 and 60mm and I worked outwards from the siding. It was all about a nudge here and a smidgen there and eventually it finally came together. I have a very shallow curve at the end of the platforms (perhaps not quite as sharp as the prototype) and the curve will continue right through, with the pointwork making up some of the curvature ( and no dog-legs!).

 

Tomorrow, I shall measure the gaps between the points so when it comes to laying the trackwork permanently, I shall have some idea of what goes where.

 

Here are a couple of pictures:

 

 

^ A view from the viaducts. You will say 'not much difference to the other photos of a couple of days ago'. You'd be almost right but the mainline has been skewed slightly to the right but it means I have to trim a little off the right hand bridge abutment - about 10mm. The bay and sidings are now at a slight angle to the mainline which is prototypically correct.

 

The signal box is there as a placeholder!

 

 

^ Now looking from the tunnel end. We have the long crossover that forms the single line into the up and down main. Beyond is the ladder leading into the goods yard with the rest of the pointwork (and signalbox) in the background. The track nearest the camera is the rest of the headshunt to the banker's siding. Not only was it indicated on old OS plans that the cattle dock was along here, but so was the coaling stage.

 

My interpretation of 'reading' the old OS sheets, I came to a view that the cutting may have been slightly unstable as there is an area where the coaling stage used to be, that has a 'circle slip' shape in the hillside where it may have slumped. Perhaps because of that the cattle dock and coaling stage were moved. Where the headshunt ends in the photo there is a retaining wall (you can just the the corner of it) leading all the way to the tunnel mouth. This wall is not shown on the earlier maps and I think there was slumping of the cutting along there too.

 

Tomorrow, I cut the one missing piece of underlay and then I shall glue the whole lot down. I've already marked in pencil where they're to go. I think I may well be under way again - yay!

 

Yesterday, I went to the other builders' merchant and bought what was left of his 50mm EP - all 4 sheets! He does also have some 60mm in stock at €6.30 a sheet that is no more expensive volume-wise. I now need to source the hot knife AND a large tub of PVA that I can slosh about.

 

Definitely more tomorrow!

 

Cheers everyone and enjoy the weekend as it's now started!

 

Philip

[Philou]

Hello everyone,

 

Today was a tin-and-pin day. 'Eh?' Read on dear fellow RMWebbers:

 

The weather was not really conducive to working in the barn - intermittent rain and very strong winds that have now abated a little. As I was 'slightly' damp from walking the dog I decided to 'do something' in the barn anyway. Joy! I found three partly-used bottles of PVA, still liquid, and I diluted the one down slightly, poured it into the next, rinsed and repeated until I had a litre of nearly-neat PVA. Result!

 

I raided the kitchen cupboards for all the reserves of big tins (Mrs Philou wondering what was going on) and grabbed (if that's the right word) all the remaining map pins and headed back to the barn. One 2" brush and a suitable recipient later and 75% of Ledbury station yard is now covered with stuck-down underlay. There's only the main-line through the platforms and the bay plus siding to do and Ledbury is completed - yay! This I shall do tomorrow as I ran out of tins'n'pins!!

 

If all goes well and the green stuff has stuck, then I'll finish off and then start cutting out the underlay for Pontrilas yard and station. I shall do another dry run of tracklaying there and once happy I'll stick the underlay there as well and then move over to Dymented.

 

I also made a discovery that made me very happy - some of you may know of this already. Without resorting to any tools of any sort (saws included) did you know that you can 'bend' Peco points? I was musing on the point having one in my hand and decided to see if there was any give. Applying gentle pressure, that was a little click and slight movement occurred and indeed the point had bent over so slightly but enough for me!

 

What happened? If you turn the point over you will see that the plastic webbing is made of two parts, the break being two sleepers towards the heel (the frog direction), after the blade hinges. This is a weak point allowing the point to bend just there. It's definitely not a curve, more of a kink I suppose. The kink is reversible, so much so you can bend the other way too. It's only a degree but it's enough to fool the eye into thinking it's a curve, albeit a very shallow one. I checked the plain crossing and the slips but these are made from a continuous piece of webbing - so no give there. My Tillig outside slip does have some slight give over it's whole length but the plastic used is much softer.

 

I'm very happy with my finding as it means I can now create an almost continuous shallow curve throughout the Ledbury mainline (crossings and slips excepted). I will have a similar thing to do within the Pontrilas station throat. :)))).

 

More tomorrow,

 

Yours excitedly,

 

Philip

 

 

[lezz01]

If you cut the webbing between the crossing timbers you can curve a Peco point easily. You can do the same to diamonds and slips although you can't curve the slips very much I've done it to 3 large radius points on my 00 layout and had no problems at all. You will invalidate the warranty but as mine were pre-loved it wasn't a problem. I've known about it for a couple of decades now following an article in the toddler I thought everyone knew about it.

Regards Lez.