davidparker172 Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) Hi all This is my first post and I am new to this hobby so please go gently I am a long time lurker and information gatherer but have decided its about time I posted something, even though I am a long way from actually deciding on a layout (this is where i need your help and experience). I figured just to ask my question and see how you can all help. So.... I have a designated room in my house that I have been given "permision" to use as a hobby/railway room so I am trying to work out some possible layout ideas to maximise what space I have and fit around the rooms fittings. The room is approx 8 ft x 16 ft Has a window at one end, and a door at the same end but adjacent wall. In one corner there is a built in understairs cupboard but I ,can (and its my intention to ) cut in to the cupboard with an in and out tunnel affair so i can utilise that space. The room currently has benches on both longer sides of the room that I made a while ago for model making. The door side is 280mm lower than the opposite wall. I intend on keeping the frames of these benches as they have units underneath, but I will replace the tops to suit whatever designs I decide on. Layout wise I would like to have a roundy round so that i can set trains away and they can do their thing while i am watching or shunting/manoeuvring round other sections. This round roundy would ideally be double track, or alternatively one track that crosses over so a train goes round twice before it reaches the start again (meaning i need a raised section for a crossover) I would like some kind of station I would like an industrial part (possibly the turntable in to sheds idea I would like a section landscaped as countryside The era will be 1950-1970 I would just like a bit of everything As I have said, these are very early stages but I would like an over all target to aim for, that will no doubt take numerous years, but am happy to start with a portion of it (maybe the mainlines) and work from there whilst still being able to run trains. I am a keen model maker and have been for numerous years from airfix style kits to wargamming, so I really would like the challenge of building as much as using. For me its all in the details Scale will be OO gauge The layout will be DCC from the start using Peco code 100 and electrofrog points. As I have said, this is a post to start the ball rolling, and I appreciate I am very early on in the process but I feel having this to read up on, gather help and advice, will stand me in bette stead than failing and giving up do to lack of knowledge. I hope this makes sense I am hoping to attach pics at the end to show the room layout and also my current attempt at trying to work out extremities of hat i could use Cheers Dave Edited October 17, 2021 by davidparker172 Forgot to mention track gauge 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ITG Posted October 16, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2021 (edited) An early question - both of your outline designs suggest you wish to avoid a bridging board (removable, hinged or duck under) across the door area. Is that an intention? A key difference in the appearance of the layout dependant on whether you do bridge the door area or not, is all about the radii of the layout. By definition, avoiding a bridging board means at least that end of the layout will have significantly tighter radii. Maybe not the end of the world, if you can hide the curves under scenic areas, but worth thinking this question through early on, as the answer will have a significant impact on your layout plan. Plus, if you already anticipate a tunnel in the cupboard, if you then add tunnels to disguise curves at the other end, that’s a lot of hidden areas. Edited October 16, 2021 by ITG Addition 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted October 16, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2021 Hi Dave, Can you dismantle the cupboard? What region are you thinking about? Why have you chosen Code100 track? BTW: You should be able to export your plans from AnyRail as PNG bitmaps and upload those directly to RMWeb. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 My advice, FWIW, is to start small. A danger for people starting out is to be too ambitious. Interest gets lost when it takes too much time and effort to get trains running. Your space is a bit small IMO. Think about an end to end layout. This is pretty small and trains can be running in a fairly short time. Here's a beautiful example that I just came across: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/134041-north-molton-4mm-gwr-blt/page/2/ John 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidparker172 Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 12 hours ago, ITG said: An early question - both of your outline designs suggest you wish to avoid a bridging board (removable, hinged or duck under) across the door area. Is that an intention? A key difference in the appearance of the layout dependant on whether you do bridge the door area or not, is all about the radii of the layout. By definition, avoiding a bridging board means at least that end of the layout will have significantly tighter radii. Maybe not the end of the world, if you can hide the curves under scenic areas, but worth thinking this question through early on, as the answer will have a significant impact on your layout plan. Plus, if you already anticipate a tunnel in the cupboard, if you then add tunnels to disguise curves at the other end, that’s a lot of hidden areas. Hi Nothing is cast in stone at the moment. i will consider anything. i so like the idea of hiding smaller radius corners in tunnels as it’s more scenic opportunity. i have tried this idea before Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidparker172 Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidparker172 Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidparker172 Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Harlequin said: Hi Dave, Can you dismantle the cupboard? What region are you thinking about? Why have you chosen Code100 track? BTW: You should be able to export your plans from AnyRail as PNG bitmaps and upload those directly to RMWeb. Phil Hiya unfortunately the cupboard is built on floor to ceiling so it has to stay. I have chosen code 100 as I already have some. It’s readily available, well priced, plenty of selection, and I don’t mind the slightly larger appearance. Region wise, again as I am only early doors on this and don’t know enough about “railways” currently I am open to suggestions. i am still at the stage of just wanting to design and enjoy building a nice layout Cheers Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidparker172 Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 9 hours ago, brossard said: My advice, FWIW, is to start small. A danger for people starting out is to be too ambitious. Interest gets lost when it takes too much time and effort to get trains running. Your space is a bit small IMO. Think about an end to end layout. This is pretty small and trains can be running in a fairly short time. Here's a beautiful example that I just came across: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/134041-north-molton-4mm-gwr-blt/page/2/ John Thanks for this i have considered end to end but I really want to have trains that can run round on their own with out me shunting them at each end 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinofLoxley Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 There's nothing wrong with round type layouts and squarish rooms look as though they were made for that. With careful design one or more stations can be included that are terminus types enabling end to end operations too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidparker172 Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said: There's nothing wrong with round type layouts and squarish rooms look as though they were made for that. With careful design one or more stations can be included that are terminus types enabling end to end operations too. Sounds good to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted October 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, davidparker172 said: Thanks for this i have considered end to end but I really want to have trains that can run round on their own with out me shunting them at each end You could use a "shuttle module" that will run a train back and forth automatically between terminals. That gives the same end result as a roundy-round, trains moving while you do something else, but in a simpler plan. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 ... So long as MU or push/pull trains are of interest. Do you know how into operating railways you are? If your main interest is the buildings and scenery then perhaps a really basic double track circuit passing through an area where the non-rail buildings are of interest is the answer. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidparker172 Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Zomboid said: ... So long as MU or push/pull trains are of interest. Do you know how into operating railways you are? If your main interest is the buildings and scenery then perhaps a really basic double track circuit passing through an area where the non-rail buildings are of interest is the answer. I would say more building and making “real” rather than operating, but I don’t want to design and build a large layout and then be disappointed at the lack of operating options. so a compromise is in order but more in the hobby side … I’d that makes sense 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidparker172 Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, Harlequin said: You could use a "shuttle module" that will run a train back and forth automatically between terminals. That gives the same end result as a roundy-round, trains moving while you do something else, but in a simpler plan. Yeah I wondered about this idea for a branch line, a bit like Everard junction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
33C Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Get the Hump! Hump shunting yard, as seen in the Triang catalogue in the early seventies, using their proprietary track. Reception roads and sidings plus gravity, an 08 shunter and a few wagons. Lots of fun.! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, davidparker172 said: I would say more building and making “real” rather than operating, but I don’t want to design and build a large layout and then be disappointed at the lack of operating options. so a compromise is in order but more in the hobby side … I’d that makes sense Do you know what you enjoy operating? I can see the value in a "set it going and do something else" layout, but for me I think an end to end would be more enjoyable to operate, so I wouldn't necessarily build a circuit. And are you the kind of person who will build it, get it nice and then want to move onto the next build? (If so, then a large permanent layout is probably not the answer you're looking for, you'd probably be happier building a series of smaller, portable layouts and selling them when they're finished) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidparker172 Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, Zomboid said: Do you know what you enjoy operating? I can see the value in a "set it going and do something else" layout, but for me I think an end to end would be more enjoyable to operate, so I wouldn't necessarily build a circuit. And are you the kind of person who will build it, get it nice and then want to move onto the next build? (If so, then a large permanent layout is probably not the answer you're looking for, you'd probably be happier building a series of smaller, portable layouts and selling them when they're finished) Operation wise i think i would like to have an industrial section, with sheds, workshops, maybe turntable (eventually), but would also be happy with having a small shunting section (a bit like a built in inglenook idea), but could be for coal manoeuvres or general stock. I think its important for me to have a mainline that i can set away and have some different rolling stock on. It will be hat that will enable me to set it away, watch it, ponder future ideas, modifications, life in general. It is a fixed permanent layout as it means i can take my time but also, these things are never finished so there is always the next extension, or modification.... I am really excited by the large task but i will be tackling it in stages, a long as I have the overall target to remind myself of I hope I am making sense and its not madness or delusion 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidparker172 Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 Another variation I had forgotten about Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted October 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2021 Hi again Dave, Can I push a little bit more on the cupboard? You say it is floor to ceiling but why does that mean it can't be taken out? Removing it would make a huge difference to what you can do with the space. What's your feeling about fiddle yards? I.e. "somewhere else" outside your modelled scene that you can send trains to and from. BTW: Your room dimensions don't add up (unless the room isn't square): The left end is 2420 and the right end is given as 2360 but with a 120mm step in. 2360-120 != 2440. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidparker172 Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, Harlequin said: Hi again Dave, Can I push a little bit more on the cupboard? You say it is floor to ceiling but why does that mean it can't be taken out? Removing it would make a huge difference to what you can do with the space. What's your feeling about fiddle yards? I.e. "somewhere else" outside your modelled scene that you can send trains to and from. BTW: Your room dimensions don't add up (unless the room isn't square): The left end is 2420 and the right end is given as 2360 but with a 120mm step in. 2360-120 != 2440. Staircase cupboard is fully built in and the wife says no! fiddle yards are something I am on the fence about as in if I don’t need one then that’s good. If I do need one it must be small as for me it’s not a nice part of a layout. i didn’t even check the dimensions, but I have made a mess of them. see below….. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMay Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 2 hours ago, davidparker172 said: Another variation I had forgotten about Hmm... Are those R1 or R2 radius curves? Anyway, the problem with this set-up is (1) your baseboards are too deep (2) trains spend most of their time going round really tight corners (not curves - corners). As soon as a train starts going in one direction, it's immediately turning around a corner to go in the opposite direction. It won't know if it's coming or going. The first key is the location of the door. Enter the room through the door. Actually, the first thing to note is that the door is hung the wrong way; it would be better if the hinge was on the other side. Right now, you have to open the door, squeeze into bottom right-hand corner of the room, shut the door before entering the room proper. Weird, though solvable (though this in turn may leave the light switch on the wrong side of the door). Anyway, upon entering the room, the "top" part of the room is what you see first, and it's there I think your main layout should be. The "bottom" part of the room I'd use for a fiddle yard. You've got more than enough room for either a Minories type terminus or a BLT. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ITG Posted October 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 hour ago, davidparker172 said: fiddle yards are something I am on the fence about as in if I don’t need one then that’s good. If I do need one it must be small as for me it’s not a nice part I feel similarly when it is actually for fiddling - I avoid it. But I do have storage loop roads, a couple out of sight below upper boards, and a couple in plain ‘scenic’ sight. I feel this gives me (a) somewhere for trains to disappear to and reappear from, and (b) somewhere for my accumulated stock to be in plain view. If you’re anything like me, you’ll end up with more locos and stock than the railway itself can justify - hence the storage roads. I much prefer this to rotating stock on and off the layout. Worth thinking about storage roads. I’m with you on setting trains running, but I do have enough goods sidings, in my my main station area, to make shunting interesting. Plus a brewery siding the other side of the layout, adjacent to a single platform line. My room is probably only 75% the dimensions of yours, and many folk would think my layout is overcrowded with track - I agree it is! But I can ‘play’ in the modes I prefer. But I have probably sacrificed scenic realism to a degree. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ITG Posted October 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2021 Btw, have you thought how you will lay and wire track running through the cupboard? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted October 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2021 1 hour ago, davidparker172 said: Staircase cupboard is fully built in and the wife says no! fiddle yards are something I am on the fence about as in if I don’t need one then that’s good. If I do need one it must be small as for me it’s not a nice part of a layout. i didn’t even check the dimensions, but I have made a mess of them. see below….. Thanks. I see the problem with the cupboard now - it's not so much the cupboard as the stairs themselves getting in the way! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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