Hidden Storage Sidings / Helix

[33212]

Hello 

 

After a bit of advice on a 'what would you do' basis..

 

I have a series of ten storage roads running round the loft on low level boards, these will be connected to the scenic / operating level above by a helix, purchased but yet to be installed. The question is, for ease of operating, would it be easier to have the trains run on all ten roads in the same direction after leaving the bottom of the helix, or, maintain normal principle and have five for 'up' and five for 'down' directions if that makes sense, I'm trying to figure the entry / exit point work at the bottom of the helix. Clearly there would be need for return loop modules. To me it just seems to make more sense that everything exiting the bottom of the helix goes in the same direction, round the storage roads, then back up the helix as required..?

 

Any help appreciated.

 

thanks

 

Matt

[Chimer]

At first glance ........ assuming access to the top of the helix is via a double junction off the main line at the high level (?), the answer must be "Yes", all 10 roads running the same way.  If you were using two junctions and two helixes (helices?) then 5 each way would be an option.

 

Best of luck with the build.

[33212]

2 hours ago, Chimer said:

At first glance ........ assuming access to the top of the helix is via a double junction off the main line at the high level (?), the answer must be "Yes", all 10 roads running the same way.  If you were using two junctions and two helixes (helices?) then 5 each way would be an option.

 

Best of luck with the build.

Hello

 

yes double junction at the top, cool I'll run all ten the same way, 

 

thanks for reply

[DCB]

I don't understand how the layout will operate.   Trains go up the helix round the layout and then what?   How do they change direction to come back down?   A terminus or return loop layout works but some people have designed and built continuous run layouts with no way to get trains back down except by reversing or hand shunting locos from one end of the train to the other.  (pic (12)   If trains are to go up and run both clockwise and anticlockwise round the layout and come back down again then in practice unless you can build your own curved diamonds the helix has to exit via triangular junctions on two levels, the outer track exiting one full level below the inner so the inner can cross above the outer. (pic (16) If you are using ready made helix you probably need two to make it work.   It probably doesn't matter whether  the tracks are 5 up 5 down or 9 up 1 down but 5 and 5 probably make point work easier and  make it easier to equalise loop length.  Ideally the trains climb the outer track to minimise the gradient so climb clockwise  for UK anticlockwise for US.

Edited October 26, 2021 by DCB

[RobinofLoxley]

David the freehand drawing is incorrect, you have drawn a sort of Mobius strip there. The second junction has to face the opposite way to the first.

[33212]

Thank you all for the replies, I have figured it out in my mind and got a plan sketched on the board in the loft, cracking on with phase 1 which is to complete the storage roads and wire up, phase 2 is build the helix base and tinker from there.. cheers Matt

[DCB]

On 28/10/2021 at 15:45, RobinofLoxley said:

David the freehand drawing is incorrect, you have drawn a sort of Mobius strip there. The second junction has to face the opposite way to the first.

 The coloured layout drawing is the one with no way for trains to get back down after reaching the top. I have expanded the free hand drawing (488) to show the rest of the layout.  Add in connections to allow continuous running and it gets fiendishly complicated (487).

The obvious solution would be a flat crossing but nobody makes te curved diamond you need to make it

Edited November 3, 2021 by DCB

[kevinlms]

On 26/10/2021 at 11:26, DCB said:

I don't understand how the layout will operate.   Trains go up the helix round the layout and then what?   How do they change direction to come back down?   A terminus or return loop layout works but some people have designed and built continuous run layouts with no way to get trains back down except by reversing or hand shunting locos from one end of the train to the other.  (pic (12)   If trains are to go up and run both clockwise and anticlockwise round the layout and come back down again then in practice unless you can build your own curved diamonds the helix has to exit via triangular junctions on two levels, the outer track exiting one full level below the inner so the inner can cross above the outer. (pic (16) If you are using ready made helix you probably need two to make it work.   It probably doesn't matter whether  the tracks are 5 up 5 down or 9 up 1 down but 5 and 5 probably make point work easier and  make it easier to equalise loop length.  Ideally the trains climb the outer track to minimise the gradient so climb clockwise  for UK anticlockwise for US.

But it is 'normal' for people to only consider one half of it.

 

They do in Field, Canada, where people will watch a train transverse one half of the spiral tunnels from the viewing platform. Climbing up eastbound, they will watch a train come from the left, enter the bottom of the tunnel and see the train disappear. After a short delay, the train will crossover the lower tunnel (both at the same time if long enough), then come around below the viewing platform, heading west.

After this the train disappears from view as the train heads to the next loop. Most people disappear off, not recognising that the train is heading back where it came from!

After a while, the train reappears behind the viewer and at a much higher level, heading east again.

 

So no, it doesn't surprise me that people don't plan layouts out well.

[RobinofLoxley]

The exit from a Helix has been documented in another thread. Anyone who needs to know how to design the junction just needs to find the right thread. Sorry I haven't posted a link.

[H2O]

Sorry a bit late to the thread but I think the direction up and down the helix could be improved.  From another thread the comment was to make going up the helix the outer track as this increase in radius made the load on the loco just a bit easier, especially for longer trains where the loco is pulling against both gravity and many feet of curviture.  On the downward journey gravity is assisting so the drag from the slightly tighter radius is compensated for.  This is based on my reading of the black and red diagram from earlier in the thread.

Best of luck with building your impressive layout.