Cycling chat

[Mark Forrest]

Regarding bar width, I run 780mm on my hardtail with a 35mm stem; 800mm on the full suss which currently has a (potentially slightly too long) 50mm stem - so 760 doesn't sound particularly wide to me.  I'm a sucker for marketing hype though so it's entirely possible mine are wider than they really need to be.  I'd definitely reduce it in steps rather than go straight to something very narrow. The combination of narrow bar and short stem might feel twitchy, so you might want to pair the narrow bar with a longer stem.

 

Front wheel lifting when climbing definitely all about bending the elbows.

 

On the tyres, I'd go for something around 2.1 to 2.2 inch.  Loads of choice of brands, tread patterns and compounds; you should certainly be able to find something faster rolling and lighter, while retaining the comfort/grip of a wider tyre if you feel the need.  Definitely consider going tubeless if not already.

[njee20]

55 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Cut them down to 60cm and then try riding with your hands a bit in from the ends.

78cm seems to be far too wide.

If you are happy with less, then take a bit more off.

Unless you are riding very technical trails at speed I do not see any reason that the bar width should be much more than on a rod bike.

I mainly ride the road bike and when I ride on trails on the MTB a similar width bar means that you do not need to think about hitting branches. I do confess to clouting a couple of narrow canal under bridges though, with scuff marks on the shoulders of a jersey to prove it.

Bernard

Why not just swap to rigid forks, 23mm tyres and 53/39 chainset while you’re at it  

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, big jim said:

once it’s gone I won’t be tempted to be lazy and use it instead of the conventional bikes

Are you saying that you are completely de-electrifying?

[big jim]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

Are you saying that you are completely de-electrifying?

yep! 
 

been doing those 25 mile ambling rides with relative ease and I’ve started to plan tours where I’m not relying on having to be within my battery range or tours where I can stop and top up the power part way through 

 

i know it’s not going to be a simple change as I’ve got to get used to all the effort being my own and hills being a bit more of a challenge, I think a few months of commuting daily will soon up my fitness (combined with the virtual rides on zwift) to be honest the ride back from basford hall earlier only felt a little bit harder than on the e-bike so I think it’s more than served it’s purpose in getting me fitter and thinner and now it’s time to progress to the next stage 

 

saying that if I want to go electric for a day for whatever reason I can use Dominic’s bike! 
 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by big jim

[leavesontheline]

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Could I please seek the advice of the collective?

 

I’ve “done a Jim” and bought a barely-used bike cheap via Gumtree. Here it is:

 

It’s a fairly entry-level machine, but if you ignore the horrible welds, the frame is OK, and the air-shocks at the front seem to do the job and are easily adjustable. Shifting is a bit basic, ditto brake performance, but acceptable.

I’ve never ridden a bike with suspension, ever, and fancied trying it for long bridleway runs, which can get a bit jolting when the ground is dry without. So, a cheap way of trying it.

 

The questions:

 

- I think the 29er wheels are the same as 700c, so can I fit some less tractor-like tyres, maybe 42mm with less knobbles?

 

- the bars are dreadfully wide, to the degree where they caught on a bush, and I would have ended-up in the canal if there hadn’t been a boat moored alongside, so I’m about to take a hacksaw to them; am I likely to regret doing so?

 

- how do you stop the front wheel rearing-up when climbing steep slopes, I can’t seem to get my weight far enough forward?

 

Any advice gratefully received.

 

 

 

Do you know what groupset it has? 

 

These days even the most basic bikes from the big brands (excluding supermarket/Amazon specials!) have pretty decent groupsets that all work well, its just that the cheaper ones will be heavier, may have less gears etc. Most probably it just needs a good service, cables might need renewing and gears adjusting etc. The brakes look like hydraulics rather than cable operated. There are some very good cable disc brakes out there but as a rule, even basic hydraulic brakes should work pretty well and allow you to lock the tyres up if you grab them too hard. If not, again maybe the discs and/or pads are contaminated or just need a clean up.

 

As others have said, you should be good with narrower 700c tyres - maybe try the 40-30mm range. There is more choice these days due to the popularity of 'gravel' bikes and tyres, where there is usually some element of 'tread' on the tyres. You may need to change tubes too but make sure you get the right valves for your rim (though you can get adaptors to fit a smaller Presta valve into a larger Schrader valve rim hole).

 

MTB handlebar width has changed alot over the years, some of it is fashion I am sure, but I think it has come from down-hill mountain biking where the extra width gives you extra leverage and greater mechanical advantage when hitting obstacles at speed. I guess it also provides a bit more compliance and comfort too.

 

When I got seriously into cycling and specifically mountain-biking in the late 80's/early 90's the 'fashion' for a while was super narrow flat bars (they were properly flat back then too, no risers or angles!) and cross-country was more popular (certainly in the UK) than downhill which wasn't really a 'thing' then! I had MTB bars that were down to 50cm, probably less from memory. Since the start of the 2000's I gradually moved to flat bar hybrids due to commuting needs and then onto drop-bar road bikes for the past 10-15 years when I realised that a flat bar hybrid wasn't really the best way to get around quickly on the roads! All of my flat bar bikes have been sub 60cm but I am quite small and usually have a drop bar width between 38cm and 42cm. Now, whenever I ride a flat bar bike, when I get onto an open stretch of road, I naturally find my hands moving closer together and sometimes off the grips and onto the shifters to the inside of the grips! I guess its just what you get used to.

 

It looks like you currently have riser bars? As others have noted you could start chopping some of the width off but just make sure you can still fit the shifters/brakes (and grips of course) on there. Alternatively you could kill two birds with one stone and try some totally flat bars which usually give you more scope for going narrow but may also help shift your weight lower over the front wheel. You can often pick these up quite cheaply as they are less 'fashionable' and I presume easier to manufacture. I recently bought some Truvativ flat bars from Wiggle for my wife's bike and they were a bargain, but seem to be good quality. Looks like they still stock them and on sale - 58cm and £15.

 

On the subject of the front wheel lifting, again, as noted by others you need to get your weight over the front wheel. Doing this by getting out of the saddle can help but then you start to lose grip from the rear wheel! So you could look at altering your 'seated' setup. Maybe slide the saddle further forward, or fit a longer stem etc, but some of these changes might make your normal riding position less comfortable... Do your suspension forks have a lockout switch? Most do these days I think. When climbing steep hills you don't need the suspension anyway and you often find that you set up a 'bobbing' motion on a climb that shifts your weight back and forth and therefore makes it more likely that the front wheel might lift when the fork hits it's upward stroke limit. Just a thought.

 

For me, half the fun of cycling is the tinkering, upgrading and adjusting of the bikes! However, this also results in a growing collection of bikes and a rather large 'spares' box!     

[leavesontheline]

1 hour ago, njee20 said:

Why not just swap to rigid forks, 23mm tyres and 53/39 chainset while you’re at it  

These days there is literally a bike type for everyone out there! The lines between 'road' bikes and 'off-road' bikes are completely blurred! I saw a 'flat bar gravel bike' recently that was basically just a hardtail MTB but with a 1x drivetrain rather than a triple like the 'old days'!

 

John Tomac started it all when he fitted drop-bars onto his race MTB!

 

Its great though, if it means more options to encourage more people to get into cycling!

[Classsix T]

3 hours ago, big jim said:

yep! 
 

been doing those 25 mile ambling rides with relative ease and I’ve started to plan tours where I’m not relying on having to be within my battery range or tours where I can stop and top up the power part way through 

 

i know it’s not going to be a simple change as I’ve got to get used to all the effort being my own and hills being a bit more of a challenge, I think a few months of commuting daily will soon up my fitness (combined with the virtual rides on zwift) to be honest the ride back from basford hall earlier only felt a little bit harder than on the e-bike so I think it’s more than served it’s purpose in getting me fitter and thinner and now it’s time to progress to the next stage 

 

saying that if I want to go electric for a day for whatever reason I can use Dominic’s bike! 
 

 

Good for you Jim! The way I see it, if the ride is too hard to pedal, walk!

 

C6T. 

[Nearholmer]

8 hours ago, leavesontheline said:

For me, half the fun of cycling is the tinkering, upgrading and adjusting of the bikes! However, this also results in a growing collection of bikes and a rather large 'spares' box!   

Definitely.

 

The MTB is in very good condition and has recently been serviced, so any limitations are a combination of specification and, far more importantly I think, my complete novice-hood when it comes to this type of animal.

 

Tinkering will commence forthwith.

[big jim]

A good day with the bikes today, got the electric bike stripped ready to sell, swapping the spring seatpost for the original one as I can get £50 or so for that on its own, bags off, lights off etc, put the newer bags off the racer onto the new bike so I’ll most likely throw them in when it sells anyway, I’ve not bothered taking the spoke reflectors and stickers off, whoever buys it can decide if they want to do that 

i then managed to get my mums old RooDog bike up and running, when I put the batteries on tk charge the light stayed green which meant it wasn’t charging or had full charge but being as it’s been sat in my stepdads shed since 2016 I could safely assume it wasn’t charged, I left them charging for a bit and after a few hours the light went red to say it was charging then a few hours later it was green to say it was charged (theoretically!)

 

put the battery in the bike and hey presto, in the words of snap ‘I got the power’, there was actually 2 batteries both of which have taken a charge and work on the bike so that one will be going up for sale once the carerra has gone, as it a been stood a while I can’t guarantee how long the battery will last and it’s going to need new tyres as these have perished in the 6-7 years since it was last used! 

 

 

finally I put the cleat pedals off the electric bike on to the new one 

 

as well as the garmin mount and headlight (just the one going on this bike!)

 

certainly made good use of the Aldi bike maintenance stand today

 

if anyone is interested in the electric bikes then I’m looking at about £600 for the carerra and £750 for the RooDog (with a spare £300 battery)

 

Then when they have gone I’ve got the trek pilot 1.2 to sell

[Nearholmer]

Good progress!

 

Im not quite so far forward, having had other errands to run too, but I scoured the junk in the shed and found a pair of cyclocross tyres that I took off my other bike to swap for utility tyres, and a (possibly too much) longer stem, so they are on the MTB, and I’ve taken a 50mm slice off each side of the bars.

 

This is all very experimental, and the tyres may be too narrow, but we shall see.

[jcredfer]

Someone, way back made mention of the Push-up position as a reference for the handlebar grip width.  I can't claim to know how accurate that idea might be, but the principle, for push-ups is familiar territory, as when lying flat, face down, the hands should be positioned directly beneath the shoulder joint.  Effectively, if you measure the outer width of your shoulders, that measurement should match the width of the handlebars. [according to the Push-up theory]

 

 

[Nearholmer]

That seems to be pretty much exactly the outcome for drops, but then there seems to be an “add a bit” factor with flat bars according to what sort of riding/terrain is involved. I used to see couriers in London, fixed wheel, flat bar bikes, ridden in maniacal fashion, and they seemed to cut flat bars to shoulder width.

[jcredfer]

It got me a bit curious, well, enough to compare the width of the handlebars were on my "urban" bike [whatever that might mean for bicycles].  They turn out to be 60mm, ignoring the mirror, which fits into one end of the tube, which is rather less than the 760, you mentioned.  That, still, puts them as slightly splaying the arms by a few cm each side.  The slight splaying gives a small mechanical advantage, slightly easier steering and more stability [a bit like a self centring castor device].  All that seems pretty appropriate for the sort of activity levels that 75 years, would seem to indicate.

 

What does strike me is the weight which seems to be taken on the hands / arms, rather the contrary experience from Nearholmer,  I don't remember much of that, from the many decades ago, before cars took on the main means of transport and it makes me wonder if the cycle frame might be a bit longer than a good fit.  Having said that, it has the effect of improving my grip strength, particularly in view of the gruesome road surfaces around this county.    

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by jcredfer
Correction

[njee20]

Yeah using shoulder width to measure drops is fine, but doesn’t really work for MTB bars, where the extra width is beneficial. I find the MTB feels bizarre when I get on it now, but after 5 minutes it all feels fine. 

[jcredfer]

I have to confess that the latest postings of riders' different mounts has been very informative about how cycles are designed for purpose and how that suits the riders.  It, also, leads me to confess that, somewhere nearer to 40 than 30, years ago, I bought bikes for getting the family out and about - it didn't last long, as the others were certainly not sporty types, but had other interesting pursuits.  My bike had become, simply a chattel to be moved from garage to garage, as house moves took place, but the recent posts have made me wonder if it might become useful again - if only for a bit of variety, if nothing other may be gained.....

 

It was sold, in it's day, as a Giant, lightweight alloy(?), 10 speed road racer - I guess that amateur should have been added in there somewhere.  Beyond that, I have no idea about how useful it might be, but you lot have motivated me to have a serious look, to see what it might cost to replace the wheels, with ones with spokes that are not deteriorated beyond weight supporting.  Better [disk?] brakes might adorn the new wheels, oh, and a new bell.   

 

I truth, I have learned that I know so little about cycling in modern times, so what might be gained from rejuvenating the beast in the shed isn't quite clear, but it may be worth having a look to see.

 

 

[Nickey Line]

35 minutes ago, jcredfer said:

Better [disk?] brakes might adorn the new wheels

 

I'm afraid this is one option not open to you, as frames for disc brakes are built specifically for this braking system, with the necessary mounts for the callipers, and are also of necessity strengthened to resist bending/breakage.

Modern rim brakes are, however, pretty good anyway.

[Classsix T]

On the flip side, today's commute was ruined by a DPD van driver that apparently was of the opinion that he could continue reversing out onto a main road as long as there was no audible "thump" from the rear of the vehicle. This the day after I'd seen another ASDA car-park moron thinking the stripes on the road surface are just for decoration, not to, you know, indicate where your supposed to STOP.

 

Morons, C6T.

[Mark Forrest]

31 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

On the flip side, today's commute was ruined by a DPD van driver that apparently was of the opinion that he could continue reversing out onto a main road as long as there was no audible "thump" from the rear of the vehicle. This the day after I'd seen another ASDA car-park moron thinking the stripes on the road surface are just for decoration, not to, you know, indicate where your supposed to STOP.

 

Morons, C6T.

I'm not intending to make excuses for what could well amount to careless or even dangerous driving,  but one thing I have learnt since getting a van myself is how poor the visibility is from the driver's seat when looking over your left shoulder to reverse out of, for example, a parking spot.

Driving a small van for leisure purposes, I'm mindful of this when I park; under pressure to make multiple drops on a tight schedule - courier drivers have my sympathy.  While I'm not making excuses, it's given me a bit more understanding and tolerance of some of the behaviour I see on the road, and made me think carefully about how I position myself on the road around vehicles like these when out on the bike.

[Nearholmer]

Jcredfer’s post made me start thinking about when bikes multi-verged into sub-genres, each highly optimised. Clearly, there have always been specialist bikes, but in the 1970s, if you went into an ordinary bike shop to buy an adult bike, you would get shown animals with flat bars and a sturmey-archer three speed, and ‘sports bikes’, which we all called ‘racers’ and were lowish-spec road bikes*. A posher bike shop would also have high-spec road bikes, and the odd tourer (usually Dawes Galaxy IIRC).

 

It was well into the 80s when “mountain bikes” became ordinary shop fare, and they looked nothing like modern mountain bikes.

 

This Specialized catalogue is fascinating because it captures the moment when mountain bikes began to really change shape, and the arrival of the first overt hybrids, and it is date 1991, so yesterday really. https://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/d/15594-2/Spec_Bikes91_Mini.pdf
 

Once I’d got past the “make your own using a secondhand bike as a basis” phase when I was still at school (worrying that I’m now regressing to that), I had “sports bikes”, which got stolen one after the other, until 1991, when I bought this, from that very catalogue, which cost IIRC £400 (about £1000 today) and lasted until 2016, still in good order, so was excellent value, and was good for both commuting and riding on bridleways. It looks super-dull now, but was considered quite novel then!

 

Hearing others’ personal reminiscences of ‘recent bike history’ would be interesting.

*women would also be shown 20” wheel shopping bikes.

[37114]

Nice early morning ride with a bit of railway theme; followed the GWML from home to Bath then on the road to the Avon Valley Railway on outskirts of Bristol. There is a cycle path back into Bath then onto the canal to Bradford alongside the railway line in the Avon Valley 

[big jim]

I’ve just done my first commute to the station on the Whyte bike with my boots and backpack on, took me 12:21 to do the 2.5 miles.

 

when I first started commuting on the electric bike it used to take me just over 13 minutes and average time over the last 9 months got down to around the 11 minute mark so I’m not far off that time with no assist, top speed was a lot higher (24mph) but obviously slower on the hills (at the moment!) 

 

 

[The Great Bear]

Hi all, I am looking at buying an electric bike for leisure use. Whilst I can't see my riding off road is there any advantage in getting a gravel bike rather than a road bike and change tyres? I am very overweight 20st so would a gravel bike be slightly more robust?

[big jim]

38 minutes ago, The Great Bear said:

Hi all, I am looking at buying an electric bike for leisure use. Whilst I can't see my riding off road is there any advantage in getting a gravel bike rather than a road bike and change tyres? I am very overweight 20st so would a gravel bike be slightly more robust?

I Can’t fault the carerra e-mountain bike for leisure rides, certainly served its purpose for me, as you probably know I was 23 stone when I got it and 9 months of using it has helped get me down to 17 so I wouldn’t worry about the weight element too much

 

I never really thought about swapping the tyres on it but it probably would have been a bit less ‘hummy’ on the tarmac had I done so, the quietness of the new bike is noticeable running road tyres compared to the OEM knobbly off roaders on the E-bike, the only down side to it is the weight at 20kg but most cheaper e-bikes are around that figure 

 

not sure where your based but I’m about to put it up on eBay, if your interested before I do I’m looking for about £650 for it, only 9 months old, 2021 model, 20 inch frame 

Edited March 12, 2022 by big jim

[Mark Forrest]

1 hour ago, The Great Bear said:

Hi all, I am looking at buying an electric bike for leisure use. Whilst I can't see my riding off road is there any advantage in getting a gravel bike rather than a road bike and change tyres? I am very overweight 20st so would a gravel bike be slightly more robust?

Gravel covers a fairly broad spectrum from slightly beefed up all-road bikes through to what are virtually XC MTBs.

A gravel frame will (generally) offer greater tyre clearance than a road frame, giving you broader (literally) choice of tyres.  You might also find the geometry gives a slightly more relaxed upright position in the saddle - somewhere between road and MTB.

Disadvantages of gravel over road; tyres won't be as fast rolling,  bike likely to be a bit heavier.  Question is, if you're looking at something with electric assistance, would you notice or will the motor make up for it anyway?  Can't help there unfortunately as I've never ridden an e-bike, but seem to recall something on GCN talking about a 20 watt difference to maintain the same speed on road and gravel tyres.

 

Personally I'd suggest looking at something more gravelly, even riding on road with the poor surface of some roads and the amount of potholes you encounter on quiet country lanes I'd favour the comfort of a wider tyre for a small increase in effort/decrease in speed.

[Nearholmer]

I see a lot of people using e-bikes when I’m out and about, both on the road and on surfaced paths, and fairly benign unsurfaced paths, and the vast majority use some sort of hybrid- type bike, with what I call ‘utility tyres’, not knobbly, but not completely slick either.

 

If you say “gravel bike” in a bike shop, they will most likely point you at something designed for a fair pace, and with drop handlebars, although some “gravel bikes” do have flat bars. It will 95% certain have no suspension, and if it has some, it is likely not to be a lot. 
 

But, the lines between “gravel bike”, hybrid, and MTB are very blurred. The ones at the core of each group are easy to categorise, but the ones near the edges much less so.

 

If I were you, I’d go and try a few bikes, to see what feels right for you, especially if you haven’t cycled for a few years.