Alstom Hydrogen Multiple Units

[frobisher]

3 hours ago, APOLLO said:

 

Leave it where you wish.

 

Scale is the problem. 

 

How many Gigawatts will Orkney produce ? - How many equivalents of Heysham, Drax or Sizewell etc etc ?

 

Such power (if, it is as you suggest, a lot), will be needed to replace both gas fired plant (as gas becomes more expensive and the North Sea depletes) and ageing nuclear power stations due to be closed soon.

 

https://www.simplyswitch.com/edf-warns-more-nuclear-plants-could-shut-early/#:~:text=Plants can only safely continue,t develop cracks by 2023.

 

There will be no excess energy available to make hydrogen in any sizeable quantities, not in the UK anywhere, Orkney included. 

 

You asserted that there wasn't that much wasted generation capacity currently, and pointed out there very much was, and at a level that can produce hydrogen for covering local transport needs (ferries primarily in this case).

 

Short of major upgrades to the subsea cables from Orkney (fixed at 40MW currently) AND further major upgrades to the cables down to the central belt of Scotland from the Highlands this will remain the case, and even then, really, really quickly the production capacity will max it out (and then some).

 

Geographically Orkney is ideally suited to produce massive amounts of renewable energy in ways that much most of the UK can't (wind is pretty much constant, tidal interactions between the Atlantic and the North Sea provide tidal flows unlike many places in the world - just the Eynhallow Sound could supply the energy needs of Scotland and if you were brave enough to do similar in the Pentland Firth you might be looking at quite a bit more than that) and also geographically almost the worst place to distribute it to the rest of the UK.  Local power storage is the key for such areas which do not have adequate capability to export it all.

[black and decker boy]

So it seems both sides may be right here.

 

there are locations in U.K. where there is surplus renewables and due to remote location, that may never change. 
 

generating hydrogen then becomes a viable proposition and may transform local transport energy supplies, for example, and possibly supply further afield (could maybe support the highlands and Scottish coastal towns & cities).

 

in England & Wales it might not be quite so viable as there currently isn’t a surplus needing a home.

 

hydrogen could still be generated in other countries with, for example a solar surplus, and imported to the U.K. though the economics of that may not be any kind of game changer (this is what JCB are doing) but could provide low carbon energy for heavy engineering sectors.

[APOLLO]

I agree mostly with both above posts.

 

Orkney and the northern isles certainly DO have huge wind & wave potential, A mega project certainly, perhaps a job for big oil, Shell, BP etc as they de-carbonise. Any "spare" energy generated there could be used to create hydrogen, time and scale is a factor, the question is when and how much. It will be needed sooner rather than later. Time the Morecambe Bay & Bristol Channel barrages were built also.

 

Perhaps not pertinent to this thread, the UK (certainly England / Wales) has a huge problem ahead replacing natural gas as a fuel. Hydrogen talked about replacing / mixing with Natural Gas in gas mains. but again it's the scale. I doubt that happening on a large or national scale.

 

Up to 50% (occasionally more, weather dependant) of our electricity is generated by gas. What will replace this, certainly not Hydrogen ?

 

https://electricinsights.co.uk/#/dashboard?&_k=nk7n8g

 

The north North Sea (Shetland area) gas fields are rapidly depleting, Norway supplies us with over 1/3 of our gas, as shown in this real time data below - scroll down to the bar graph. Easington Langeled is the terminal for imported gas from the Norwegian fields. St Fergus is the far north Scottish terminal for Shetland area gas. (Grain & Milford Haven are LNG imports).

 

https://mip-prd-web.azurewebsites.net/InstantaneousView/Index

 

The Norwegian fields have around 13 years left at their current depletion rates, UK less than 5  (Shell 2021 statistical review of world energy) - look at R/P ratios (reserves to production) - the end figure. Page 34 of the report. Then we are dependant on imported gas, LNG from the middle east (mainly) or Russian gas - and look at the current news regarding that.

 

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/corporate/pdfs/energy-economics/statistical-review/bp-stats-review-2021-full-report.pdf

 

The three above sites tell us virtually all we need to know regards UK energy. Two are in real time and are worth looking at occasionally. Wait for the first really freezing cold, windless day with high atmospheric pressure over the UK - around 5pm when electricity & gas loads at peak. That is when the figures will have real meaning.

 

Brit15