Downsizing Layout

[kathymillatt]

Hi Everyone

 

After much soul searching, I am downsizing my US New Haven layout.  The current one is stalled and to be honest, it's too big for my attention span!  I like to do smaller achievable projects.  I am therefore taking out my large layout and will be doing a series of smaller more finescale cameo layouts which can fit in the same slot as each other but be put away for storage.  Each will be 900mm by 400mm on laser cut baseboards.  I am really inspired by layouts such as Chris Nevard's Brew Street.  I would like to explore more prototypes beyond the US, such as Port Dinorwic (a North Wales slate dock), a Maine Seaport and something with canals on.  I will also be doing a few small New Haven cameos too. 

 

The upshot is that I will probably sell my larger rolling stock and locomotives such as coaches or big diesels.  They are all New Haven so it is very specialised for the UK.  I know when I sold my On30 it was well below cost!  Does anyone have suggestions on the best way to sell the stock eg good dealers etc?  I also have a few buildings I will be offloading too.

 

Thanks

Kathy

[Keith Addenbrooke]

11 hours ago, kathymillatt said:

Hi Everyone

 

After much soul searching, I am downsizing my US New Haven layout.  The current one is stalled and to be honest, it's too big for my attention span!  I like to do smaller achievable projects.  I am therefore taking out my large layout and will be doing a series of smaller more finescale cameo layouts which can fit in the same slot as each other but be put away for storage.  Each will be 900mm by 400mm on laser cut baseboards.  I am really inspired by layouts such as Chris Nevard's Brew Street.  I would like to explore more prototypes beyond the US, such as Port Dinorwic (a North Wales slate dock), a Maine Seaport and something with canals on.  I will also be doing a few small New Haven cameos too. 

 

The upshot is that I will probably sell my larger rolling stock and locomotives such as coaches or big diesels.  They are all New Haven so it is very specialised for the UK.  I know when I sold my On30 it was well below cost!  Does anyone have suggestions on the best way to sell the stock eg good dealers etc?  I also have a few buildings I will be offloading too.

 

Thanks

Kathy

 

Hi Kathy, I’m not an expert but wondered if I might share some thoughts on reading this based on my own experience as a punter.  First of all, having seen something of your layout on the internet (probably your website?) I can appreciate it is a large project - more akin to a US basement-filler than a typical UK home layout.  Even though such US layouts are home-based (obviously), the write-ups I read suggest builders either get quite a bit of help at various stages, or else are happy to take decades to complete.  Given that, downsizing makes sense - as once that point of decision is reached, I’d doubt the sentiment will change.

 

In terms of onward selling, I think the New Haven has quite a high profile in the UK in the sense of being a well-known RR, but I’d also agree I don’t think it’s a top selling line, such as the UP or SF, so the market may be smaller.  When I sold my own collection (of UK outline models) I had to accept some reduction against cost for second hand trading, just as with anything else (a car is the obvious example).  I classed that as the “play value” I had from my trains when I wrote off the difference.  With that in mind:

• Do you have the original boxes?  A good box does seem to make selling easier, especially through dealers.  I’m not always sure why.
• If you don’t want the hassle of eBay for a large collection, another avenue could be one of the specialist Auction houses that advertise in the model press.  They might give an estimated value before sale?
• I did sell my stuff to a dealer, accepting it got me a lower price again, but saved me a lot of time and effort - it was efficient and certain.  That convenience has a value.  I traded in batches, and found including some good quality locomotives in each batch helped: I was advised that’s where the value is.
• I didn’t do it all in one go, but spread over three years, taking care to keep a sensible selection of items I might still use, and only selling them when I’d made sufficient progress with a new project to be sure.

I’m not an NMRA member, but that might be an option.  If I might be a bit cheeky with a final thought, which you may not want to pursue, I guess you’d have the choice of putting your name to the sale if it went to auction, as I’ve seen some collections marketed in that way when they come from well-known modellers.  It may not increase the price, but can help a sale.

 

Sorry for a rather long reply that doesn’t make a specific recommendation.  Others will be better placed to do that, but I’ve found topics like this generate quite a lot of general interest, so I hope my post is OK.  Keith.

[Gilbert]

I've been through the same process Kathy - I've hopefully found someone who is going to take the layout on and I too am disposing of stock. I'll PM you with a suggestion but I'm pretty clear that unless you find the right buyer you may not get the "value" back that you ascribe to your models..I went to "not Benson" as a visitor rather than seller at the weekend and it seemed trade was brisk with much buying. Would a large B&B table at the Convention work?

Chris

Edited February 2, 2022 by Gilbert

[Happy Hippo]

Although not New Haven, have you looked at what Thomas Klimoski has done with his version of the GNRR?

 

Perhaps a small permanent layout with some detachable sections, such as Tom's marble works sidings might be another way forward.

 

https://www.thomasklimoski.com/

[298]

Anoraks Anonymous for the stock if you want to get rid all in one go, otherwise eBay, possibly with international delivery. I'd also consider the same for selling some of those wonderful building kits as I doubt there is much if an appreciative market in the UK for them. I've also known of Warwick & Warwick sell a large collection of US narrow gauge but that method seems to be more for convenience than realising a good price.

 

Your interpretations of a micro layout will be good to see although one disadvantage of building a US themed Chris Nevard type layout I've found is the stock is alot longer than British shunting locos and four wheeled wagons which can make a similarly sized train look smaller.

[Patrick SPF]

Kathy

 

There is also the Region Meet at Kelverdon at the end of May

[doctor quinn]

From experience selling a friend’s collection and downsizing my own, eBay worked well with a surprising amount of interest from N America and Europe.
 

Having tried Global Shipping Program once I decided not to use it for nonUK sales. Where there is an import tax eBay collects it and in the case of Europe obtains a reference number which I quoted at the post office. 
 

On the future layout, New Haven’s Union Freight RR in Boston might be worth a look for inspiration.

[jasond]

Keith's advice above is good, Kathy.  I'm an old O-scaler and went to the NMRABR meet in Stokenchurch, nr High Wycombe last Sunday.  I haven't been a member for many years, but was welcomed by the organisers to the extent that I may rejoin.  Anyway, rather like the bicycle salesman in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, I gatecrashed some O-scale threads on forums I watch, mentioned the meet and was really pleased with how many customers that pulled in for me.  

 

With your reputation, you will have less to fret about than me so do a couple of small to medium shows and take contact details.  A list of what's left can make a good email.  Ooh, I almost blew it and said "threaten them with a price cut" as one of the advantages of signing up.

 

Sophie at Anoraks Anonymous had come all that way from Doncaster!

Jason

[kathymillatt]

Wow, so much great advice - thank you!

 

Responding in order:

 

Keith

On the US layouts, there are definitely a lot of people who have gangs of friends helping them on their 60' basement layouts.  I do know guys who manage that on their own but it is a lifetime achievement and normally does have help on key parts or with motivation.

 

On my stock:

I do have the original boxes so it's just a lengthy exercise to reunite them from their stock storage to their boxes.  

I feel that I don't have room so rather than have them clutter up my house, I will try and clear in one go.  That makes a dealer a good option and I have had a lot of joy from them - even if some have hardly run in anger!

I put something on the NMRA BR forums but haven't heard anything yet.  I didn't make the recent meet but only decided this after that had just happened.  It's just so much to lug there if most won't sell.

 

I plan to get rid of the large locos and coaches that are too long for a future cameo layout.  There are just a lot of them!

 

Thanks for a great reply

 

Kathy

[kathymillatt]

8 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Perhaps a small permanent layout with some detachable sections, such as Tom's marble works sidings might be another way forward.

Hi Richard

 

I won't go permanent this time as I want to be able to build it in my kitchen downstairs.  I will do laser cut baseboards and then just put them on a cupboard top.  Works well for small layouts without limiting options.  I can store them in the cupboard underneath then!  I want smaller layouts and that brings limitations so these will be alot more limited I know.

 

Tom's modelling is top notch isn't it - thanks for sharing.

 

Kathy 

[kathymillatt]

5 hours ago, 298 said:

Anoraks Anonymous for the stock if you want to get rid all in one go, otherwise eBay, possibly with international delivery. I'd also consider the same for selling some of those wonderful building kits as I doubt there is much if an appreciative market in the UK for them. I've also known of Warwick & Warwick sell a large collection of US narrow gauge but that method seems to be more for convenience than realising a good price.

 

Your interpretations of a micro layout will be good to see although one disadvantage of building a US themed Chris Nevard type layout I've found is the stock is alot longer than British shunting locos and four wheeled wagons which can make a similarly sized train look smaller.

Thanks on Anoraks 

 

I do have a lot of stock and US can do small if you use small switchers and 40' box cars - I have a lot in the 40'-50' range plus tank cars, hoppers, flats, gondolas etc...  The switchers are my favourites so it will be great to use them in that.

 

That is all larger than a UK 4 wheel wagon but still doable, I hope.

 

Thanks!

[kathymillatt]

4 hours ago, Patrick SPF said:

Kathy

 

There is also the Region Meet at Kelverdon at the end of May

Brilliant thanks Patrick 

[kathymillatt]

4 hours ago, doctor quinn said:

From experience selling a friend’s collection and downsizing my own, eBay worked well with a surprising amount of interest from N America and Europe.
 

Having tried Global Shipping Program once I decided not to use it for nonUK sales. Where there is an import tax eBay collects it and in the case of Europe obtains a reference number which I quoted at the post office. 
 

On the future layout, New Haven’s Union Freight RR in Boston might be worth a look for inspiration.

Hi

 

I have done ebay in the past and it takes a lot of effort and I am about to start a new full time job so I know that I will be more lacking in time than I will want to be.  I think the global shipping programme seems to confuse almost everyone!

 

I saw John Pryke's excellent Union Freight in person - awesome - but I think I am more likely to head to the East to New York and do that end instead.  I would like to do street running through the waterfront.  I have a car float but it's too big so it will be going too.

 

Thanks

 

Kathy 

 

 

[kathymillatt]

4 hours ago, jasond said:

Keith's advice above is good, Kathy.  I'm an old O-scaler and went to the NMRABR meet in Stokenchurch, nr High Wycombe last Sunday.  I haven't been a member for many years, but was welcomed by the organisers to the extent that I may rejoin.  Anyway, rather like the bicycle salesman in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, I gatecrashed some O-scale threads on forums I watch, mentioned the meet and was really pleased with how many customers that pulled in for me.

Jason

 

I do love O scale for the size - you can see the details!  

 

I should go with the buildings etc to a meet but it will depend on what's local whilst I am clearing out.  I've not been to any in a couple of years - I am out of the habit!

 

You should rejoin - they're a great bunch!

 

Kathy

[jasond]

Kathy, I've followed the D&H, but occasiona regularly aspects of Nth Am modelling hit you between the eyes.  Here's a shot on the South Brooklyn Railway.  OK, limited traffic these days, but the atmosphere still gets me coughing.

[kathymillatt]

On 04/02/2022 at 14:04, jasond said:

Kathy, I've followed the D&H, but occasiona regularly aspects of Nth Am modelling hit you between the eyes.  Here's a shot on the South Brooklyn Railway.  OK, limited traffic these days, but the atmosphere still gets me coughing.

Hi Jason

Sorry, I responded to this on Friday but it seems to have lost that - I do love these New York waterfront railways.  Another favourite is the Jay Street railway running through the corner of a building.  It's a really rich scenic area to model.

 

Kathy

[298]

Something I like in Chris Nevard photos is it seems he has a railway room with a number of layouts set up in, so going into the room is like entering your own exhibition. What might work for you is retaining an outer perimeter of New Haven around your loft with such layouts below it, as a continuous run is always useful and something I can only attain from a circle of E-Z track on the floor.

 

This is my own interpretation of Brew St, in about 26". I did send it to the museum in the US but I don't think they know what to do with it....

 

 

 

Another favourite loco from a side project that you may also have is this Atlas HH660, it's not much longer than a GE 44 or 70 tonner but runs alot better....

 

[kathymillatt]

18 hours ago, 298 said:

Something I like in Chris Nevard photos is it seems he has a railway room with a number of layouts set up in, so going into the room is like entering your own exhibition. What might work for you is retaining an outer perimeter of New Haven around your loft with such layouts below it, as a continuous run is always useful and something I can only attain from a circle of E-Z track on the floor.

 

This is my own interpretation of Brew St, in about 26". I did send it to the museum in the US but I don't think they know what to do with it....

 

 

 

Another favourite loco from a side project that you may also have is this Atlas HH660, it's not much longer than a GE 44 or 70 tonner but runs alot better....

 

Hi

I can’t keep a full loop and have my new vision sadly as there is something else planned for the other side and I am not doing hidden track ever again. I do like the way Chris Nevard has multiple small layouts too and I think I am channeling that here.

I have two HH660s and they are my favourites. They run so well. They are definitely on the keep pile. 
 

It is embarrassing how many new items I have that have never been out of their boxes…

 

Kathy 

[CVSNE]

Hi Kathy, 

I'd be lying if I told you I wasn't disappointed by your layouts pending doom, but I completely understand the whys and wherefores. 

 

We downsized a few years ago - of course when we downsize it means there's a 15 x 30 single deck layout .... no 60-footers for me!!!

 

Seriously, while a number of folks immediately honed in on urban switching layouts in HO, NYC waterfront themes are in danger of being done to death, at least over here. 

 

If I was going to take your approach of very small projects - I had to use a conversion app to figure out how big (small!) 900 mm is - I'd go with something in 1/4" or S scale. A real modeling project that you'd be able to detail to your heart's content and then really see when it's completed. 

 

In any event, best of luck. And, if you're ever in the Washington DC area be sure to let me know!

 

Marty

 

[jasond]

Hi Marty, before I forget, for us modellers working in Imperial Units there's only one comparison to remember with the French system metric: 4 inches = 100mm.  So, a foot is 300mm, a yard is 900mm, an inch is 25mm.  But ... it was developed by the French so, apparently, you have to shrug your shoulders when you do it and mutter 'et un petit peu'.

 

Getting away from the coast, a local club wanted to emphasise the small relative size of the stock on an On30 layout they were building, so I donated an InterMountain O-scale box car for an interchange platform.  The interchange became a shed with maybe half the standard gauge boxcar cut on the diagonal poking out... 

Jason

[Regularity]

4 inches is 101.6mm, etc.

 

…because the definition of an inch is that it is precisely 25.4mm long.

[kathymillatt]

On 07/02/2022 at 21:48, CVSNE said:

 

Hi Kathy, 

I'd be lying if I told you I wasn't disappointed by your layouts pending doom, but I completely understand the whys and wherefores. 

 

We downsized a few years ago - of course when we downsize it means there's a 15 x 30 single deck layout .... no 60-footers for me!!!

 

Seriously, while a number of folks immediately honed in on urban switching layouts in HO, NYC waterfront themes are in danger of being done to death, at least over here. 

 

If I was going to take your approach of very small projects - I had to use a conversion app to figure out how big (small!) 900 mm is - I'd go with something in 1/4" or S scale. A real modeling project that you'd be able to detail to your heart's content and then really see when it's completed. 

 

In any event

 

Hi Marty

 

Whilst I do love that NY waterfront vibe, I’m doing a Welsh slate dock next. The laser cut baseboards arrived today. The High Line is one of my favourite parts of NY but I’ve done the elevated section already so probably won’t repeat. 

 

After the slate dock I like the idea of a Maine seaport if I can bring a fresh twist to it or a slate quarry with incline. I have a 16mm brass kit for that so really big!  
 

So much choice but at least I can do more than one at the new size. 
 

I’ve sadly no plans to come to the US in the near future but if I do, I will certainly let you know, thanks!

 

Kathy