MTB-MP1 point motors - any users on here?

[WIMorrison]

Just now, Ravenser said:

So - why has nobody chosen this option with the MP1??

 

Because we either run them through accessory decoders providing DC, we have a separate DC accessory power bus, or people use using them on a DC layout.

 

Nothing sinister, just no-one has a need to run them from 16v AC - and it would beg the question as to whether anyone uses 16v AC for anything these days with a decent SMPS providing stable DC power costing pennies.

[Andy_C]

Have you rang James from DCC Train Automation? He is the UK distributor, and has been very helpful with me regarding using the mP1's - all be it DCC.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Andy_C

[Ravenser]

 

On 30/08/2023 at 20:02, WIMorrison said:

 

Because we either run them through accessory decoders providing DC, we have a separate DC accessory power bus, or people use using them on a DC layout.

 

Nothing sinister, just no-one has a need to run them from 16v AC - and it would beg the question as to whether anyone uses 16v AC for anything these days with a decent SMPS providing stable DC power costing pennies.

 

The trouble with that one is that on a DC layout , the traction supply from the controller is highly variable . The polarity reverses depending which way you set the controller , and the voltage fluctuates according to where you turn the knob. 

 

Not being able to change the points without turning the controller up is not workable = it in effect means you can't change the points unless a train is running , or that you have to turn up the controller full whack to set up,a route, because otherwise on a shunting layout you might not be supplying more than 7-8V to the track anyway. (The context is an N gauge layout - I believe N gauge locos are designed to run on no more than 9-10V . One video suggested these MTB motors were starting to get a bit marginal if the voltage is down to 9V..) 

 

And the instructions are quite clear that the positive DC supply is to be connected to the Common terminal . Of course positive and negative flip on the traction supply every time you change direction on the controller. A point that moves in a different direction when you flip the switch depending which way the controller is set seems a very unhelpful way to wire points... Not to mention the issue of whether you will damage the MP1 if you supply DC positive through the negative terminals and vice versa.

 

I did consider tapping the traction supply on the layout, but after 5 minutes thought I concluded it was an unworkable bad idea.

 

Who uses 16V AC on a layout these days? Anyone using solenoid motors...

 

The context of this is a small N gauge project reusing two existing boards that were built with 2x 1 framing. Consequently Tortoises and Cobalts won't fit. So I used solenoids . Can't go wrong using Peco motors on Peco points as designed can you? Well actually you can....   One of the Peco points broke up at the tiebar and had to be replaced Broken point replaced  

 

I then spoke to a well-known N gauge modeller who told me this was a well-known issue, and if I kept using solenoid motors there would be more failures of this kind. He suggested servos, I spoke to Coastal DCC who pointed out that special driver boards would also be needed to use servos, and suggested the MTB motors as a slim-line alternative.

 

Hence we arrive at the present situation . I do not have a stable 12V DC supply with a fixed polarity on the board (I have a highly variable traction supply) . I do have a 16V AC supply on both boards. A 16V AC to 12V DC regulated converter costs around £10 a pop, plus postage : with one being required for each board , that's about  £25, which is not "pennies" and there is the trouble and delay of sourcing one (or rather, two).

 

Being able to wire them up immediately off the 16V AC supply is potentially an attractive cheap option.

 

Anyone else contemplating using these motors as a direct replacement for solenoids would be in the same position

Edited August 31, 2023 by Ravenser

[Ravenser]

12 hours ago, Andy_C said:

Have you rang James from DCC Train Automation? He is the UK distributor, and has been very helpful with me regarding using the mP1's - all be it DCC.

 

 

 

 

May be worth trying at the weekend

[WIMorrison]

23 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

A 16V AC to 12V DC regulated converter costs around £10 a pop, plus postage : with one being required for each board , that's about  £25, which is not "pennies" and there is the trouble and delay of sourcing one (or rather, two).

 

12V 2A Power Adapter LED RGB 3528/5050 Switching Power Supply,AC100-240V to DC12V 24W Plug-in

 

£6.99 and more than enough power - and this was found without any effort in looking for it.

 

And if you are totally wedded to your 16v AC then just get one of these AC-DC Converter £1.99, even cheaper.

Edited August 31, 2023 by WIMorrison

[Ravenser]

8 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

 

12V 2A Power Adapter LED RGB 3528/5050 Switching Power Supply,AC100-240V to DC12V 24W Plug-in

 

£6.99 and more than enough power - and this was found without any effort in looking for it.

 

Plus £3 postage, and wiring a whole new bus to the layout (which in fact the inter-board connector won't accomodate)

 

The 16V AC supply is already there. The notes speak of an AC option... Hence my interest. Adding extra transformers, cables, power sockets etc etc is not a benefit...

[WIMorrison]

14 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

And if you are totally wedded to your 16v AC then just get one of these AC-DC Converter £1.99, even cheaper.

 

[Ravenser]

44 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

 

The manufacturer's notes and the markings on the case suggest these motors can also be powered by low voltage AC, without giving details

 

So:

 

1. Is this correct? Is the nominal 16V AC output from the Gaugemaster within spec?

 

2. If this is indeed an option, then how is it wired?

[Andy_C]

11 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

 

May be worth trying at the weekend

I would. Makes sense as they are the UK distributor, and you'd want to fit this in line with not jeopardising the warranty? I've been caught out once buying an MP1 from a diff model shop. Bought 8 as a deal. One was faulty. The shop in question asked me to get in touch directly with James. I didn't think this very good customer service, but did so anyway. James sorted it, and I've purchased nothing more from the 'offending' model shop.

 

I'd also add that John G at Digitrains Lincoln is very helpful. They sell MP1's as well (supplied via DCC Train Automation).

[ITG]

If I may resurrect this thread…..

Apart from using MP1s on a simple test layout (for learning iTrain), in which I wired a couple independently/directly to DR4018 (driven by Z21), I’m now setting these up for the first ‘proper’ time on a new layout build.

I note earlier comment in this thread about using the common positive in a daisy chain or star format, rather than run each such wire back to the DR4018.

To check my understanding, where would this common +ve start? There are 8 such outputs on the DR4018, so could it be any one of those? And then to the first MP1, then second etc? (Or in a star).

Obviously, the pos 1 and pos 2 wires need to independently go to DR4018, but without the common +ve,  it’s one less wire, 8 times over.

thanks

Ian

[KingEdwardII]

4 hours ago, ITG said:

it’s one less wire, 8 times over.

I just use small 3 core flex (0.5mm2 or less) from the DR4018 to the MP1. Simple and straightforward. I'd consider doing a common more complex and more of a faff, especially if you get a failure anywhere.

 

Yours, Mike.

[WIMorrison]

I use three wires stripped from the side of flat ribbon cable. Pretty well perfect for the job, centre used as the common then the other two for the motor direction.

[ITG]

1 hour ago, KingEdwardII said:

I just use small 3 core flex (0.5mm2 or less) from the DR4018 to the MP1. Simple and straightforward. I'd consider doing a common more complex and more of a faff, especially if you get a failure anywhere.

 

Yours, Mike.

 

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

I use three wires stripped from the side of flat ribbon cable. Pretty well perfect for the job, centre used as the common then the other two for the motor direction.

Mmm, seems like I can use thinner wire than I was planning. I have some multi strand and ribbon, so I’ll use one of them.

thanks both.

Ian

[KingEdwardII]

4 hours ago, ITG said:

seems like I can use thinner wire than I was planning

Indeed - the current draw of the MP1 is pretty small, so thin wire is just fine. Voltage drop is not going to be an issue.

 

Yours, Mike.