London WR DMU's

[keefer]

On 17/03/2022 at 14:40, Mike_Walker said:

The Swindon Inter-City Class 123s were also to be found on WR services to Oxford and Birmingham until around 1973 when they migrated to Trans Pennine services.

In reply to @Nearholmer query above.

[Nearholmer]

1973?!?!

 

That’s as good as half a century ago, and it seems like yesterday!
 

 

[Morello Cherry]

I've got an old copy of 'Diesels West of Paddington' by K.G.Jones which was published in 1981. I am not sure if it is any help. It is a fairly good record of the transition from loco hauled to HSTs of the every day on the lines out of Paddington in the 1970s with a focus on the tail end of the period. It covers as far as Swindon, Oxford and down to Guildford but mostly the Thames Valley.

 

From my memory of the period and the photos.

 

117s everywhere. Blue, Blue Grey, White.

121s especially on the branches - ie Windsor Central, Greenford, Henley single or in pairs. strengthening 3 coach 117s.

119s Reading - Gatwick replacing the Tadpoles but there is also a photo of one on a Paddington - Newbury service but that is the only shot.

117 DMS + 121 on the Marlow branch.

 

Other stuff

08s -

31s - mostly parcels and freight.

33s - parcels, freight - tankers, stone, freightliners. Pretty much anything from SR.

37s - parcels, freight - stone - up from Wales, Bristol.

47s - on everything everywhere - 0/3/4

50s - express passenger. A wide range of states

HSTs

 

A few random observations:

Loads of parcels trains.

25s appearing at Oxford but no further. 56s to Didcot on MGR but no further. A few specials in the period hauled by 20s, 40s, 45s.

 

No 101s etc.

[Mike_Walker]

A 117 DMS plus a 121 on the Marlow branch or elsewhere would be a rarity probably down to a failure.  On the Marlow branch our normal fair from July 1962 to the mid-80s was a Bubble Car on its own or with a trailer or a pair of Bubbles plus 117s in the peak hours. The only exception was in the early 70s when we had the use of 3 Park Royal 103s (clapped out they was) and then from the mid-80s things got more varied with 101s, 104s, 108s and the occasional 119.  There were many "hybrid" units such as 101/121 combinations as Reading struggled to keep enough 1st generation units going to cover services until the Turbos arrived.

[MidlandRed]

On 21/03/2022 at 11:40, Nearholmer said:

Weren’t there also some “inter city” DMMUs? 
 

I vaguely recall some things that looked a bit like 4-CEP, but with slightly rounded corners to the cab ends.

 

Didnt they get used on outer suburban trains?

The Swindon Inter City DMUs were allocated to the London Division (Reading depot) in 1968 and operated largely peak period longer distance commuter trains previously operated by loco hauled trains, from May 1968 until February 1976. The sets containing buffet cars had them removed and became three car units from early on. The journeys were to Oxford, Newbury, Henley on Thames (two morning and two evening workings) Didcot and Hungerford, initially running as pairs of 8 car units. 
 

They were also used (3 sets coupled together to make a 10 car set) during 1970 on a Saturday morning Paddington to Minehead working, a nice photo appearing in the Alan C Butcher book, Heyday of the DMU (there are also two other photos in that book, one from each of their periods allocated to Cardiff (1963-68 and 1976-7). 
 

During their periods at Cardiff, they operated Derby/Birmingham/Cardiff (first two yrs or so from new) and Cardiff/Bristol/ Portsmouth and Crewe. 
 

Those cars remaining serviceable were transferred to the Trans Pennine services in 1977 (interesting as the previous transfer of class 14s to Hull had also involved liaison between Canton and Hull). 

Edited April 1, 2022 by MidlandRed

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

The Swindon Inter City DMUs were allocated to the London Division (Reading depot) in 1968 and operated largely peak period longer distance commuter trains previously operated by loco hauled trains, from May 1968 until February 1976. The sets containing buffet cars had them removed and became three car units from early on. The journeys were to Oxford, Newbury, Henley on Thames (two morning and two evening workings) Didcot and Hungerford, initially running as pairs of 8 car units. 
 

They were also used (3 sets coupled together to make a 10 car set) during 1970 on a Saturday morning Paddington to Minehead working, a nice photo appearing in the Alan C Butcher book, Heyday of the DMU (there are also two other photos in that book, one from each of their periods allocated to Cardiff (1963-68 and 1976-7). 
 

During their periods at Cardiff, they operated Derby/Birmingham/Cardiff (first two yrs or so from new) and Cardiff/Bristol/ Portsmouth and Crewe. 
 

Those cars remaining serviceable were transferred to the Trans Pennine services in 1977 (interesting as the previous transfer of class 14s to Hull had also involved liaison between Canton and Hull). 

Very much so and indeed I travelled on various of their workings regularly.  They replaced loco-hauled trains on the Henley-Paddington through services but were quite well received by the regulars because the passenger accommodation was little different from the Mk1s they succeeded and they rode very nicely on their B4 bogies.  They also worked various various Reading - Paddington (and opposite direction) trains to make balances the Henley and Oxford services although there was also some empty running between Reading and London.

 

They were also a very comfortable ride to Minehead on which route they were also used for Sunday excursions.  Oddly having commuted on them for just over a year to/from London, and doing a trip to Minehead I was never on one that failed completely although no doubt they continued their habit of occasional engines 'dropping out'.  The Henley trains were 10 car formations formed by three diagrams as were the Oxford workings but the Paddington - Bedwyn running in 1970-71 was 2 x 4 car diagrams coupled.  During the 1970-71 service they also operated a Paddington -Bristol, and return, train on Saturdays. 

[Pandora]

 Do not forget the WR BUBBLECARS,  the last train of the service for me a PADD to Hayes bubblecar.  The WR had a prototype unit which never truly rivalled the Sprinter,  the class 210, my prefered train into PADD in the commuter run,  fast and powerful,  with a purposeful diesel engine power a plenty!

[Pandora]

On 21/03/2022 at 11:40, Nearholmer said:

Weren’t there also some “inter city” DMMUs? 
 

I vaguely recall some things that looked a bit like 4-CEP, but with slightly rounded corners to the cab ends.

 

Didnt they get used on outer suburban trains?

You may be  refering to the class 210 dmu prototype,  the 210 was a competitor to the Sprinter

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, Pandora said:

You may be  refering to the class 210 dmu prototype,  the 210 was a competitor to the Sprinter

No - the 210 looked nothing like the Inter-City sets as it used a Mk 3 based bodyshells.  The Inter-City units, like the CEPs, used  Mk1 gangwayed stock bodies although the power car ends were completely different from a CEP and not just due to the wraparound cab windows.

 

Now where on earth are my photos of the 210 running in the Thames Valley?

[Mike_Walker]

Here's both as you can see they were very different animals.

 

Swindon Class 123 InterCity units at Princes Risborough when used on Paddington - Birmingham services in 1972.

 

210001 at Bourne End (reduced to 3 cars to be able to access Marlow) on 19 February 1983 - the only day it worked the branch in connection with a promotional day by the local passengers' group.  Both 001 and 002 were at at Reading; 001 was (normally) 4 cars and a Paxman Valenta engine - basically half an HST engine - whilst 002 was 3 cars and had a MTU engine.  Part of the design brief was for them to have performance akin to an EMU and they certainly shifted!  Sadly they were deemed too expensive for series production and were withdrawn.  Several of the trailers were later reused in Class 455 units.

 

[Morello Cherry]

The best place to see 210s in action is in the video for Bronski Beat's 'Smalltown boy'. Plus various shots of early 1980s West London services.

 

 

On the subject of late 1970s West London, if the OP were to take it back to 1975-76 then there would also be run down 52s as well and some spruced up ones hauling the last few specials.

 

1970s WR in the Thames Valley would give someone a wide range of loco hauled stock and a very limited range of DMUs.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Morello Cherry

[brushman47544]

On 01/04/2022 at 14:47, Mike_Walker said:

A 117 DMS plus a 121 on the Marlow branch or elsewhere would be a rarity probably down to a failure.  On the Marlow branch our normal fair from July 1962 to the mid-80s was a Bubble Car on its own or with a trailer or a pair of Bubbles plus 117s in the peak hours. The only exception was in the early 70s when we had the use of 3 Park Royal 103s (clapped out they was) and then from the mid-80s things got more varied with 101s, 104s, 108s and the occasional 119.  There were many "hybrid" units such as 101/121 combinations as Reading struggled to keep enough 1st generation units going to cover services until the Turbos arrived.

 

In the late 70s/early 80s of the OP, the Class 121s would normally be complemented on the branches by a Class 149 DTS 56280-56289 (later 54280-54289) rather than a Class 117 DMS.

[Nearholmer]

On 02/04/2022 at 16:04, Pandora said:

You may be  refering to the class 210 dmu prototype,  the 210 was a competitor to the Sprinter

No, I liked the 210, because it was a proper DEMU, which, as a southern region bod I could relate to. Having checked since others pointed me in the right direction, the ones I was thinking of were definitely the 123.

[Morello Cherry]

17 hours ago, brushman47544 said:

 

In the late 70s/early 80s of the OP, the Class 121s would normally be complemented on the branches by a Class 149 DTS 56280-56289 (later 54280-54289) rather than a Class 117 DMS.

 

I've checked again the photos and you are right. It looks like a 149 DTS rather than an DMS.  Nice for livery mixing- the image on the Marlow branch is a White 149 with a blue and white 121 and at Windsor a white 149 with a blue 121, and then other shots of blue with blue. 

 

[Tallpaul69]

HI All,

Greatly enjoyed the info and recollections on the WR mainline and branches, can I be cheeky and ask for anything similar for the GW&GC and its branches?

Many thanks

Paul  

 

[rob D2]

On 03/04/2022 at 14:28, Morello Cherry said:

The best place to see 210s in action is in the video for Bronski Beat's 'Smalltown boy'. Plus various shots of early 1980s West London services.

 

 

On the subject of late 1970s West London, if the OP were to take it back to 1975-76 then there would also be run down 52s as well and some spruced up ones hauling the last few specials.

 

1970s WR in the Thames Valley would give someone a wide range of loco hauled stock and a very limited range of DMUs.

To be fair, I think you just wanted us to watch bronski beat …;)

Although if I was looking for a moquette to scratchbuild a 210it may be handy . And looking at the Bachmann 117 as competition , I could probably scratchbuild one out of titanium cheaper.

 

I was confused and intrigued as to why a fitter from the 210 turned up in the swimming pool sequence 

 

 

 

[dibber25]

On 18/03/2022 at 19:49, Rivercider said:

Well spotted!

From my notes it was 37070 on an (unidentified) tank train, presumably from the Ripple Lane area?

 

cheers

Can't see the picture, of course, but the Ripple Lane-Staines West central heating fuel? (CJL)

[johnofwessex]

On 03/04/2022 at 12:31, Mike_Walker said:

Here's both as you can see they were very different animals.

 

Swindon Class 123 InterCity units at Princes Risborough when used on Paddington - Birmingham services in 1972.

 

210001 at Bourne End (reduced to 3 cars to be able to access Marlow) on 19 February 1983 - the only day it worked the branch in connection with a promotional day by the local passengers' group.  Both 001 and 002 were at at Reading; 001 was (normally) 4 cars and a Paxman Valenta engine - basically half an HST engine - whilst 002 was 3 cars and had a MTU engine.  Part of the design brief was for them to have performance akin to an EMU and they certainly shifted!  Sadly they were deemed too expensive for series production and were withdrawn.  Several of the trailers were later reused in Class 455 units.

 

 

 

Paddington to Birmingham in a 123 isn't that bad but there's what looks like a 117 behind it, is it a masochists special?

[Mike_Walker]

12 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

 

 

Paddington to Birmingham in a 123 isn't that bad but there's what looks like a 117 behind it, is it a masochists special?

No, it was a regular service train. Presumably even then there were shortages and substitutions were required.

[Rivercider]

16 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Can't see the picture, of course, but the Ripple Lane-Staines West central heating fuel? (CJL)

It might well be, I did not visit the London Division very often. 

 

Here is a cropped version of the original post, the 37 is very small, 

Acton Main Line class 117 with 37070 in the distance, 11/4/83, 39 years ago!

 

cheers 

[Tallpaul69]

20 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

 

 

Paddington to Birmingham in a 123 isn't that bad but there's what looks like a 117 behind it, is it a masochists special?

Surely the 117 is in front of the 123 if it is a Paddington-Birmingham service?

I think you had forgotten that Princes Risborough had only one platform(the up was used bi directional(!)) at that stage?

[rob D2]

On 11/04/2022 at 17:21, dibber25 said:

Can't see the picture, of course, but the Ripple Lane-Staines West central heating fuel? (CJL)

Or maybe ripple lane - Thame ? Did that go that way ?

Edited April 12, 2022 by rob D2

[dibber25]

2 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Or maybe ripple lane - Thame ? Did that go that way ?

Yes, now I see the date again, 1983, it can't be the Staines West train as the line closed south of Colnbrook in 1981 and after that the central heating oil went via the SR. It all seems a very long time ago now. (CJL)

Edited April 12, 2022 by dibber25

[The Stationmaster]

On 11/04/2022 at 20:01, johnofwessex said:

 

 

Paddington to Birmingham in a 123 isn't that bad but there's what looks like a 117 behind it, is it a masochists special?

Around 1967 there was a regular Paddington - Birmingham morning train via Didcot that was formed by a 3 car suburban set.  It was an interesting ride to say the least.  However going up Hatton Bank it was a darn sight better ride than that delivered by Mr 'Virgin's 'vomitters' when they first arrived and ran around giving you a distinct feeling om the train that certain bits of the power train were likely to pack up at any moment when working hard.

[dibber25]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Around 1967 there was a regular Paddington - Birmingham morning train via Didcot that was formed by a 3 car suburban set.  It was an interesting ride to say the least.  However going up Hatton Bank it was a darn sight better ride than that delivered by Mr 'Virgin's 'vomitters' when they first arrived and ran around giving you a distinct feeling om the train that certain bits of the power train were likely to pack up at any moment when working hard.

Had a memorable ride from Leamington Spa back to Oxford once, on a Swindon Cross-Country, flat-out at every opportunity but the ride was 'lively' to say the least! Loved those Swindon units and the Gloucester 119s. Those Virgin/Cross Country units - Voyagers, do they call them? - are horrible and I've never yet been on one that wasn't totally inadequate in every respect. (CJL)