Diagram K38 livery query

[lofty1966]

Could anyone advise me if K38’s would have been painted all over brown with the shirt button livery.

If they did, does anyone have any pics please?

[57xx]

Bounce.

 

I'd be interested to know if K38's received this or choc/cream with shirt button. The only references to these I can find so far indicates they were branded Ocean Mail for the boat trains. Were they used on other services too?

[M.I.B]

You are probably going to have to work this out on probability:

 

Six of these were made in 1925/6 depending on who you read.  How many do you need for Ocean Mails work?  All six probably - two per train - allows for two trains headed Up and one headed Down at one time (or vice versa).

 

When did the liveried "Ocean Mails" work cease?  I have seen various dates.  All would indicate that these lost their special branding and became normal service stock - cue a repaint?

 

They, and many more items of NPCCS were seldom subjects of informal public photos: film was expensive, and little boys with box brownies would have been after shots of something exciting like a King or Castle.  If you are super lucky details of one may show up in the background of a grainy black and white photo.    There will be formal photos from Swindon, so perhaps a raid on their records, or NRM may show up something taken after repaints.  

 

They will have returned to "mundane use" after the end of "Ocean Mails" formal traffic.  They, unlike their predecessors, were of a length and width that would have allowed them to go anywhere on the network.  So well worth keeping hold of.

 

They operated well into and after the Shirtbutton era, so Shirtbuttons are almost a dead cert, but colours?????

 

I used all of the above to plan my sole K38  for my late GW collection and ended up with C&C with late branding.

[Coach bogie]

If it helps, there is a Pat Garland image of W1170, in 1948 in Hawksworth C&C livery style, with double horizontal lining, still with 'OCEAN MAILS' branding.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Bulwell Hall]

Some of the K38s were definitely painted all over brown in the pre WW2 era.  I have in the past consulted the GWR Carriage Registers which give details, dates, etc when vehicles were altered including livery changes and some of the K38s were definitely repainted in brown and in that period would have had the GWR roundel.  I cannot easily access my notes relating to this material but what I found was definitive enough for  me to do one in this livery myself - photo attached. I also have a photo taken at Weymouth in the late 1930s showing the Channel Island Boat Express leaving and the first vehicle in the train is a K38 in brown - again I would have to dig deep to find it.  As an aside to this Carriage Working Programmes show that the Channel Island Boat Express always had such a van in the train and other photographs show that this was often a K38 in full Ocean Mails livery - certainly I have photos of the boat train on the Weymouth Harbour Tramway in 1939 with such a vehicle in the formation.

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Bulwell Hall

[57xx]

Thank you all for the response. I might just get a pair of sides and convert one of my bargain bin Hornby Colletts. Judging from BH's pic, the underframe just needs to have a regulator box removed, they have the right buffers and very good bogies, i can reuse door handles and just need a pair of corridor connectors (unfortunately the bargains were all non-corridors). I'm sure I'll spot some other tweaks needed but  think I've got a good starting point.

Good job they tell us BR liveries are soo popular and yet they are the ones sat being heavily discounted. 😁 I wouldn't want to cut up a nice GWR liveried one .

[Coach bogie]

2 hours ago, 57xx said:

Thank you all for the response. I might just get a pair of sides and convert one of my bargain bin Hornby Colletts. Judging from BH's pic, the underframe just needs to have a regulator box removed, they have the right buffers and very good bogies, i can reuse door handles and just need a pair of corridor connectors (unfortunately the bargains were all non-corridors). I'm sure I'll spot some other tweaks needed but  think I've got a good starting point.

Good job they tell us BR liveries are soo popular and yet they are the ones sat being heavily discounted. 😁 I wouldn't want to cut up a nice GWR liveried one .

Personally I would recommend the latest Hornby non corridor compo. There are a few discounted ones around. The main reason being, there are are no roof tanks to remove. Nasty job to to leave a smooth surface and  it is the roof your eye sees first. Just remove the ventilators and fill. Remove carefully and you have some nice spares. Easier to add the missing end detail than remove the roof tanks. The underframe parts are easily moved as most are separate fittings.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

[57xx]

10 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

Personally I would recommend the latest Hornby non corridor compo. There are a few discounted ones around. The main reason being, there are are no roof tanks to remove. Nasty job to to leave a smooth surface and  it is the roof your eye sees first. Just remove the ventilators and fill. Remove carefully and you have some nice spares. Easier to add the missing end detail than remove the roof tanks. The underframe parts are easily moved as most are separate fittings.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

That is exactly what I have, Mike. £25 for new ones at Hattons at the moment and a couple of used for £22 and £23. That's a good hint about the roof tank, thank you. I was thinking of the nice end detail on the corridors making an easier job, in the same way as you also noted on the underframe details. Luckily I got the right coaches by luck of what was on sale.

[Brinkly]

On 30/05/2023 at 18:16, Bulwell Hall said:

Some of the K38s were definitely painted all over brown in the pre WW2 era.  I have in the past consulted the GWR Carriage Registers which give details, dates, etc when vehicles were altered including livery changes and some of the K38s were definitely repainted in brown and in that period would have had the GWR roundel.  I cannot easily access my notes relating to this material but what I found was definitive enough for  me to do one in this livery myself - photo attached. I also have a photo taken at Weymouth in the late 1930s showing the Channel Island Boat Express leaving and the first vehicle in the train is a K38 in brown - again I would have to dig deep to find it.  As an aside to this Carriage Working Programmes show that the Channel Island Boat Express always had such a van in the train and other photographs show that this was often a K38 in full Ocean Mails livery - certainly I have photos of the boat train on the Weymouth Harbour Tramway in 1939 with such a vehicle in the formation.

 

 

A beautiful model, Gerry. 

 

May I ask, what paint did you use, please? The weathering is excellent, too - it reflects the Wartime and Post-War Austerity very well. 

 

All the best,

 

Nick.