Mk 2e TSO interior

[diyceejay]

Moving on with my MK2 rake and keen to fill my Mk2e TSOs with some authentic 1982 interiors.

Can anybody tell me the internal arrangements at this time in terms of seat design, were the walls wood veneer or plastic, were there carpets like in first class, were there tables at every seat, were there curtains etc?

Thank you.

[andyman7]

Mk2e TSOs were the first to have plastic melamine panels rather than wood for the interior. The seating was exclusively bays of 4 round a table; TSOs had no curtains. I think they had nylon type carpet but can't remember!

[hexagon789]

41 minutes ago, diyceejay said:

Moving on with my MK2 rake and keen to fill my Mk2e TSOs with some authentic 1982 interiors.

Can anybody tell me the internal arrangements at this time in terms of seat design, were the walls wood veneer or plastic, were there carpets like in first class, were there tables at every seat, were there curtains etc?

Thank you.

All seats arranged as 4 around a table. 

 

The Mk3s were the first to introduce airline seating.

 

The interior scheme was:

 

Blue flooring; plastic (melamine) side trim and end panels; dark blue table tops and off-white seat backs with blue seat covers.

Edited May 28, 2022 by hexagon789

[keefer]

IIRC the earliest Mk2e had the wooden panelling like the Mk2d but I don't know when the changeover to plastic panelling occurred.

As an aside, the end gangway doors/vestibules were 'putty' (pale grey) colour as opposed to the red of the Mk2d.

Edited May 28, 2022 by keefer

[hexagon789]

6 minutes ago, keefer said:

IIRC the earliest Mk2e had the wooden panelling like the Mk2d but I don't know when the changeover to plastic panelling occurred.

As an aside, the end gangway doors/vestibules were 'putty' (pale grey) colour as opposed to the red of the Mk2d.

Funnily enough I was thinking that re the panelling. Then changed my mind.

 

Should've stuck with my original gut instinct!

[wombatofludham]

5 minutes ago, keefer said:

IIRC the earliest Mk2e had the wooden panelling like the Mk2d but I don't know when the changeover to plastic panelling occurred.

As an aside, the end gangway doors were 'putty' (pale grey) colour as opposed to the red of the Mk2d.

Correct, when built they had wood laminate interior panelling, and retained the "XP64" Mk2 winged seating in second, upholstered in "Bournemouth Blue" moquette.  The Mk2F design was fitted with "Mk3" style interiors, featuring the (at the time, ghastly) InterCity 70 seat with fixed armrest, and easily removable headrests, upholstered in a very sweaty nylon fabric which was turquoise and chocolate in second, and retina-threatening orange in first.

It wasn't until the refurbishment in the late 1980s which introduced the red upholstery that the 2es were refurbished to the same style as the 2f and lost their wood panelling.

Flooring when built was lino in second and a bit of carpet in first.

 

[wombatofludham]

Mk2e open firsts had the old Manchester Pullman style first class seating, in a rusty-grey moquette with black leatherette trim. and I think the tables were topped in black.  Things got more complex in the 1980s when some 2e coaches had a "refresh", mainly replacing the veneer on the end panels with melamine (the side walls retained veneer at this time, revarnished) and new upholstery to replace the "Bournemouth Blue" with a brighter moquette.  In first the seats acquired an orange striped moquette.  Table tops were replaced with light beige coloured melamine in place of the original black, and carpets were fitted in second.  These "refreshed" coaches were painted in the Inter City Executive livery and used in predominantly Cross Country services.

There's a photo of the interior of a preserved 2E TSO 5777 here 

Mk2eTSO 

which although preserved is pretty close, although when new the headrests would have been a dark blue almost black material and the seat backs would have been "Bournemouth Blue", with the floor blue lino.  However it gives a good impression for modelling purposes.

Edited May 28, 2022 by wombatofludham
Additional info

[andyman7]

42 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

Funnily enough I was thinking that re the panelling. Then changed my mind.

 

Should've stuck with my original gut instinct!

 

39 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

Correct, when built they had wood laminate interior panelling, and retained the "XP64" Mk2 winged seating in second, upholstered in "Bournemouth Blue" moquette.  The Mk2F design was fitted with "Mk3" style interiors, featuring the (at the time, ghastly) InterCity 70 seat with fixed armrest, and easily removable headrests, upholstered in a very sweaty nylon fabric which was turquoise and chocolate in second, and retina-threatening orange in first.

It wasn't until the refurbishment in the late 1980s which introduced the red upholstery that the 2es were refurbished to the same style as the 2f and lost their wood panelling.

Flooring when built was lino in second and a bit of carpet in first.

 

I very distinctly remember back in the late 70 and early 80s Mk2e's with the winged seating but with melamine panels - very distinct from the Mk2fs with their InterCity 70 blue moquette seats. Indeed the way I told airconditioned Mk2s apart was wood panels/winged seats - melamine panels winged seats - InterCity 70 interior. In my mind this was Mk2d/e/f but in reality there may have been more crossover, but there was an interior without wood panels that predated the Mk2f. 

[keefer]

i don't know if the moquette is original but the pic of 5777 on this page looks like an original (wooden) interior.

https://coaches-library.weebly.com/mk2e---tso.html

Presumably the main (only)difference for later Mk2e would be the plastic panelling?

 

EDIT: Re-reading Mark's (Wombat) post above and a quick at the Harris Mk2 book, I realised I've been confusing myself. I thought the Mk2e as built, started off with wood but later vehicles were built with plastic - whereas actually all Mk2e had wood and the plastic panels only came in with the Mk2f.

Sorry for any confusion!

Edited May 28, 2022 by keefer

[wombatofludham]

59 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

 

I very distinctly remember back in the late 70 and early 80s Mk2e's with the winged seating but with melamine panels - very distinct from the Mk2fs with their InterCity 70 blue moquette seats. Indeed the way I told airconditioned Mk2s apart was wood panels/winged seats - melamine panels winged seats - InterCity 70 interior. In my mind this was Mk2d/e/f but in reality there may have been more crossover, but there was an interior without wood panels that predated the Mk2f. 

The first batch of Mk2F, with white plastic trim, were fitted with earlier Mk2 seats due to delays in the delivery of IC70 seating.  They retained these seats throughout their lives and received the "red dogger" moquette when they were refurbished in the 1980s.  These may be the coaches which you recall.

Mk2d coaches and Mk2e coaches had hybrid pressure-ventilation and air conditioning which caused reliability issues.  Mk2d had the larger toilets which reduced seating to 62 in standard, and the vivid red panelling in the entrance vestibules.  They had wood panelling and the interior decor was identical to that of Mk2a-c.  Mk2e had reduced size lavatories, one at each end, with a luggage rack opposite the lavatory.  The entrance vestibules were off-grey ("putty") and they were able to seat 64 because of the smaller lavatory.  Internally the saloons retained varnished wood, and the "XP64" seats in second and "Manchester Pullman" seats in first. 

The 2f coaches had a better, full air-conditioning system based on the system used in the 1966 Mk2 Pullman coaches which was more reliable (and why the 2f coaches were retained longer in service).  The interior design was based on the planned Mk3 designs, and in second had off-white melamine panelling on the walls, dark blue on the end walls, blue topped tables (in second), blue lino and apart from the first 40 coaches which had the "XP64" winged seats in second, the rest were fitted with IC70 seats upholstered in turquoise with brown striping.  In first, the seats were all upholstered in vivid orange, the walls were lined in a hessian type material, off white which proved difficult to clean, curtains were orange, tables were fawn and the end saloon panels also fawn.  A carpet was fitted, in striped brown and orange.

After about ten years in service the 2d and 2e types were given light refurbishments, mainly new seat covers and a deep clean but kept the seating they were fitted with.

I vividly remember riding on all the Mk2 types from the vacuum brake Mk2 (including the strange 48 seat Mk2 dining second opens) through the 2a, b and c to the 2d, e and f. By the 1980s the detail variations where coaches had had a depot refurb with different moquettes could fill a book.  It wasn't really until the Intercity "Swallow" era that you could say there was a consistent, common interior in both Mk2f and Mk3 such that to a normal, apart from the noise of tread braking and a slightly choppier ride on Mk2 coaches, they seemed to be practically identical.

[diyceejay]

Thank you for the plethora information there. So am I correct thinking this image is probably a 2e as built, and this is the Bournemouth blue?

Edited May 28, 2022 by diyceejay
Combining questions

[diyceejay]

8 hours ago, diyceejay said:

Thank you for the plethora information there. So am I correct thinking this image is probably a 2e as built, and this is the Bournemouth blue?

Actually...I realise now this isn't Bournemouth blue moquette is it? This one ahs some yellow and green through it as well.

I see from the offset door at the end that this must be a 2dbwith the larger toilet resulting in offset door and one less seat.

[diyceejay]

So this is the Bournemouth blue with veneer panelling and original tables...so apart from the windows, is this a fairly accurate 2e interior décor-wise?

[hexagon789]

9 hours ago, diyceejay said:

Thank you for the plethora information there. So am I correct thinking this image is probably a 2e as built, and this is the Bournemouth blue?

 

56 minutes ago, diyceejay said:

Actually...I realise now this isn't Bournemouth blue moquette is it? This one ahs some yellow and green through it as well.

I see from the offset door at the end that this must be a 2dbwith the larger toilet resulting in offset door and one less seat.

Yes, that's a 2D. As you correctly surmise the offset door into the vestibule, due to the toilet compartment arrangement, proves that it is a 2D.

[wombatofludham]

Useful link to moquette designs

 

[wombatofludham]

6 hours ago, diyceejay said:

So this is the Bournemouth blue with veneer panelling and original tables...so apart from the windows, is this a fairly accurate 2e interior décor-wise?

The headrests when built had a very dark navy, almost black material rather than the light grey but in other respects, pretty much.  In first, the moquette was a rust/brown with black leather trim.  Although the seat design is different, there is an image of a Mk2 first compartment which shows the colours

Mk2 First class compartment

[wombatofludham]

This is an interesting image from Eastern Rail Services, who sourced the last remaining Mk2c open first and cosmetically restored it for a Sky TV film shoot.  It shows pretty much how open firsts from Mk2c to Mk2e would have looked.  The moquette is a pretty close facsimile.

Mk2c FO

[giz]

6 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

Useful link to moquette designs

 

I have a vague recollection of a green version of the Bournemouth blue being used on early mk2s that isn't shown there. I think it was one of the 48 seat SOs that I associate it with. Am I remembering correctly?

Edited May 29, 2022 by giz

[Simon Lee]

2 hours ago, giz said:

I have a vague recollection of a green version of the Bournemouth blue being used on early mk2s that isn't shown there. I think it was one of the 48 SOs that I associate it with. Am I remembering correctly?

 

You are indeed, l remember on an ER excursion from Hull to Clacton, in 1974 l rode in a BSO, no 9390 (IIRC) that had the green version of the Bournemouth moquette. 

 

[wombatofludham]

According to the Bluebell Railway:

"Green and Brown Check Second Class

Green and Brown versions of (Bournemouth Blue) were used for non-smoking seating in the Mk.2 TSOs for the West Coast stock, but not generally used subsequently".

I must admit I never saw this but it's good to know it is confirmed by the Bluebell.