Why did GWR have drivers on the right, when signals were on the left?

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, eastglosmog said:

But was the G&SWR LHD?  This photo of a G&SWR loco looks decidedly RHD.

 

 

I was taking @billbedford's statement on trust, but looking at photos, you are quite right - nullis in verba. On the other hand, literally, GS&WR locomotives were LHD.

[eastglosmog]

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

On the other hand, literally, GS&WR locomotives were LHD.

Yes, you have to be careful where you put the ampersand!

This business of LHD or RHD is quite fascinating.  I have been looking at my copies of Bradley again, and it appears the LSWR was RHD when Beattie and Adams were in charge (Adams T3 563 on the Swanage Railway is definitely RHD) but changed over to LHD when Dugald Drummond took over in 1895, a policy which continued with Urie.  Not seen any reason given why Drummond  went LHD.  I suppose with his generally higher pitched bigger boilers, it could have been sighting of signals, but could just as well have been that is how it had been on the Caledonian and he wasn't going to change for a load of southerners!  Neither Drummond nor Urie bothered to change the existing RHD stock to LHD, and the Southern did not either. 

[Compound2632]

39 minutes ago, eastglosmog said:

YNeither Drummond nor Urie bothered to change the existing RHD stock to LHD, and the Southern did not either. 

 

That would be quite a major operation financially for, presumably, little benefit.

[billbedford]

The two English LHD railways  were the LNWR and the LBSC, though the SECR had five LHD locos they bought from the GNoSR  

[JimC]

A quick scroll through Russel suggests lines the GW absorbed were varied.

ADR - at least some RHD

Barry - not sure

Cambrian - RHD

Cardiff - at least some RHD

Rhymney, mix

TVR - RHD 

B&M at least some RHD

MSWJR LHD

[billbedford]

9 hours ago, JimC said:

A quick scroll through Russel suggests lines the GW absorbed were varied.

 

MSWJR LHD

 

A look through these photos shows that only the last batch of 4-4-0s were LHD all the earlier locos were RHD. Were these 4-4-0s bought from another railway?

[Compound2632]

17 minutes ago, billbedford said:

 

A look through these photos shows that only the last batch of 4-4-0s were LHD all the earlier locos were RHD. Were these 4-4-0s bought from another railway?

 

No, but from another builder: NBL. earlier locomotives were from Beyer Peacock mostly, though the two 4-4-4Ts were from Sharp Stewart - which of course was one of the firms that amalgamated to form NBL. 

[JimC]

Another complication with the Welsh classes is that those re-boilered with GW Std boilers were always RHD. Unsurprisingly. 

 

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

No, but from another builder: NBL. earlier locomotives were from Beyer Peacock mostly, though the two 4-4-4Ts were from Sharp Stewart - which of course was one of the firms that amalgamated to form NBL. 

Would not a private builder build to the buyers request, unless it was left over loco from a company that cancelled an order? I can't see that any builder would automatically supply to their own preferred choice.

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Would not a private builder build to the buyers request, unless it was left over loco from a company that cancelled an order? I can't see that any builder would automatically supply to their own preferred choice.

 

I don't know enough about the M&SWJR's locomotive arrangements but I'm pretty sure they were buying whatever the builder designed to meet their outline specification, rather than having the builder construct to the company's design. so the question may not have been raised. or possibly NPL said: you can have LHD, if you want RHD, that'll be £5 6s 8d extra.

 

NPL photo:

 

I wonder what their contemporary standard 4-4-0 for India looked like?

Edited June 11, 2022 by Compound2632

[JimC]

22 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I don't know enough about the M&SWJR's locomotive arrangements but I'm pretty sure they were buying whatever the builder designed to meet their outline specification, rather than having the builder construct to the company's design. so the question may not have been raised. or possibly NPL said: you can have LHD, if you want RHD, that'll be £5 6s 8d extra.

RCTS states that the 4-4-0s were built to the MSWJRs locomotive superintendant's design, but of course we know that typically CMEs/superintendants did not man their own drawing board, so its still a matter of speculation how much was drawn by NBL's staff and how much by MSWJR employees, if indeed they kept a drawing office.

[billbedford]

7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I don't know enough about the M&SWJR's locomotive arrangements but I'm pretty sure they were buying whatever the builder designed to meet their outline specification, rather than having the builder construct to the company's design. so the question may not have been raised. or possibly NPL said: you can have LHD, if you want RHD, that'll be £5 6s 8d extra.

 

I wonder what their contemporary standard 4-4-0 for India looked like?

 

It does look like the MSWJ were told that their loco would be a lot cheeper if they just took some that were the same as NBL were bulding for someone else.

[Morello Cherry]

Appropos of nothing, I just rewatched Night Mail and at 19.40 the fireman appears to be firing the loco which is lhd from the lefthand side. I am assuming that is his normal firing stance and he hasn't moved across to accommodate the camera man. (As the loco is being fired leaving Crewe earlier in the film it is fired from the right hand side)

 

 

A slight disgression allegedly according to Wikipedia Auden claimed that a guard in the Crewe shots keeled over and died 30 seconds after they finished filming him. I couldn't see many/any guards in the Crewe shots though.

[Miss Prism]

Coincidentally, the excellent Going Loco blog has started some articles on GWR loco controls.