Branch Coaches in the BR Era

[johnofwessex]

What passenger coaches were used on the branch in the BR Era?

 

There is the famous Thompson brake, there were single Hawksworth vehicles towards the end and at least on MK1 suburban.

 

I am told that Swindon even had to build some LMS designed non corridor stock for the branch in the late 50's

 

Ia

[phil_sutters]

I am not able to identify the coaches used, by company or type, but can offer my Dad's photos of the Somerset Central line as he insisted it should be called, saying it wasn't a branch but the original railway!

Another online source is the Newman family's album. They lived on a farm beside the line east of Highbridge. http://www.newman-family-tree.net/s&d/index.html

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

20 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

am not able to identify the coaches used, by company or type, but can offer my Dad's photos of the Somerset Central line as he insisted it should be called, saying it wasn't a branch but the original railway!

That's almost a Rule 1 railway. Will try a bit of ID later but mat a quick glance I spotted an LMS non-corridor Lav Composite and Thompson 6-wheel brake (BGZ) along with various Collett, Hawksworth, Stanier and Bulleid stock, a Maunsell Van B  and a Van C. Nothing Gresley yet but they were used as strengtheners on the S&D main line as well as regular use on through expresses.

[Flying Pig]

17 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

I am told that Swindon even had to build some LMS designed non corridor stock for the branch in the late 50's

 

You stated that in the coach number suffixes thread, but other posters didn't seem to think it was the case. As @TheSignalEngineer's list shows, though, there was plenty of genuine LMS stock still running in the BR period.

 

 

[Compound2632]

Not, I think, exactly what you are looking for, being about one of the twigs off the branch rather than the branch itself, but there was a discussion in Sept 2020 on the motor driving trailers used on the Wells branch:

 

"The BR Era" was a time of considerable change, so what was typical in 1948 - LMS non-corridor carriages, with a typical formation being a P2 brake third with a P1 lavatory composite - was not what was typical 15 years later. These various exotic (i.e. not ex-LMS non-corridors or ex-Southern corridor sets) vehicles mentioned were I think only a feature of the very last years, not of the "BR era" as a whole. The total number of carriages allocated to S&DJR local workings cannot have been very great, so I imagine it ought to possible to draw up a carriage stock timeline, as done above for the Wells branch. I dare say this has been done, it's just a case of asking the right people. Have you tried contacting the S&DRT?

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Compound2632

[Combe Martin]

What you are asking here is what vehicles were used in what I would call 'the Highbridge Sets'.

 

These were 2 vehicle sets, and their 'diagram' included one set being worked up to Bath from Templecombe attached to an early morning service for later use on the early evening Bath-Binegar and return.  It eventually returned to Templecombe on the last down service of the day.  Another set was also used on the afternoon Templecombe -Bailey Gate 'milky' and return.

 

As mentioned above the BR period was a period of change, but during the 50's almost all sets comprised 2 ex LMS suburban coaches coupled with the brake compartment in the middle.  The 2 coaches usually 'matched' but didn't always, and were of several different coach diagrams.  I'm not an LMS coach diagram expert, there are others that can identify exactly what diagrams they were.  

 

The ex LMS sets seemed to gradually disappear during 1961/62 being replaced by ex GWR B sets of several different diagrams.  These were coupled with the brake compartment at the outer ends.  The Hornby ex Airfix/Mainline B set coaches were one type used. 

 

The B sets didn't seem to last long and were gradually replaced from 1962 on by a real mixed bag of coaches.  These included a 5 compartment Thompson Brake coupled to a 10 compartment BR Mk1 suburban in one 1962 photo.

 

From 1963/64 onwards some sets comprised 2 ex LMS non-matching corridor coaches, or a pair of ex GWR coaches, 2 Collets or 2 Hawksworths or a mixed pair.  Sometimes even BR Mk 1s.  Some sets were 1 corridor coach and 1 non corridor.    

 

During 1964 some sets became just a single coach coupled to a van (various types).  Where a single coach was used it was almost always a brake composite (to provide some 1st class).  Various types were used, Hawksworths, Collets, Mk1s, even the occasional Bullied.

 

During 1965 some sets became just the single Brake Composite.

 

Some services look as though they were longer than 2 vehicles.  These were just 2 sets coupled together, in 1964 sometimes resulting in a sequence of coach, van, coach, van.  From memory, this was an early morning Highbridge-Templecombe service, but there may have been others. 

 

If you'r trying to be accurate, study the S&D picture books.  The Ivo Peters series are very good, but there are plenty of others (dozens). 

     

Peter,

 

PS ... I've done loads of S&D research over the years, but I've never come across the suggestion that Swindon built some new LMS suburban coaches for the S&D.  The WR didn't get control of the S&D till 1958. They may have repaired some, but the LMR were responsible before 1958.  In the BR era, Mk1 suburbans were what was being built new.

 

PPS ... When the Highbridge set was a single Hawksworth brake composite coupled to a van, sometimes it was one of those that had been converted into a Slip coach (these were now redundant on the WR main line).  They are noticeable because the Slip conversion included putting windows in the end of the brake end.   These were even used on the Bailey Gate milky, and the Binegar..

Edited July 1, 2022 by Combe Martin

[andreas]

This happens to be a subject I have recently started looking into in a little more detail (some might say a little too much perhaps?). I will try to expand upon the previous answers and summarise the typical workings along with some of the more unusual combinations. While the S&D mainline expresses are well known for their eclectic mix of rolling stock, branch trains were similarly varied, especially after the Western Region took over. As usual with the S&D, rule 1 is rarely needed. There really was a prototype for everything.

 

As Coombe Martin has pointed out already, there were several distinct periods from Nationalisation to closure: 

• 1948 to 1958: LMS non-gangwayed 2-sets, e.g. LMS composite + brake third (period 2 or 3 non-lavatory coaches were the most prolific)
• 1958 to 1961: Gradual replacement with GWR B-sets. A GWR B-set (E145) is a safe choice.
• 1962/1963: Anything goes and gradual replacement with corridor stock, e.g. GWR BC (E157) + BT (D132, or Mk1 BSK + CK , or...
• 1964 to closure: single brake composites: e.g. Hawksworth BCK + SR van

 

From nationalisation to around 1958, virtually all branch trains were made up of LMS 2-sets composed of brake third and composite. A wide range of diagrams from all LMS periods were used, including lavatory-fitted coaches. Occasionally, especially in summer, trains were strengthened with another set or whatever else was available. 

 

For anyone interested in running numbers I could find the following in my notes:

• 1960 P3 C (D1921) M16777M (middle digit is unclear)
• 1960 P1 CL (D1686) M19090M (not 100% legible)
• 1959 P3 (D1921) M16753M
• 1959 P1 C (D1701) M16092M (not 100% legible)
• 1958 P2 BT (D1735) M20403M
• 1958 P2 C (D1734) M16399M
• c1958 P2 BT (D1735) M20558M
• 1954 P1 BT (D1703) M20253M (not 100%  legible)
• 1951 P1 BT (D1703) M20156 in crimson lake (on the Bridgwater branch)
• c1950 P1 CL (D1686) M19097 in crimson lake (not 100% legible)
• 1949 P3 BT (D1907) M20772 (not 100% legible)
• c1948 P1 BT (D1703) M20150 in crimson lake

In the very early days of Nationalisation, the odd Midland coach would also make an appearance. Photographical evidence is sparse though. During the 1950s, the main source of variation were excursion trains and the spare Maunsell rebuilt ex-LSWR coaches normally stabled at Evercreech Jct. Especially in the early 1950s, summer excursions would occasionally lead long trains with mainline stock over the branch. Depending on the origin, they could contain virtually anything seen on the mainline, e.g. Gresley articulated coaches to D171, Maunsell rebuilt ex-LSWR coaches or LMS designs, such as M7674M, a period 1 LMS RTO to D1706. 

But perhaps the most unusual combination on the branch must have been GWR Prairie tank 5522 with Hawksworth inspection saloon as seen in a photo dated February 1956 in Footplate Over The Mendips (I have always wondered if the caption shouldn't have been 2/58?).

 

While period 1 coaches had disappeared by the mid-1950s, things stayed more or less the same until the takeover by the Western Region. In 1959, we see the first GWR influences on the branch, namely GWR B-Sets started appearing, e.g. W6561W+W6563W (diagram E129) was seen in July 1959. Later also W6216W+W6217W, W6338W (diagram E145).

 

Replacing LMS coaches was a gradual process, which lasted until 1961, when non-gangwayed LMS coaches vanished from service. By that point, most of them had already shown signs of field repairs. Many had lost door vents, now plated over with steel sheets. Incidentally, this helps identify specific coaches. The last of the LMS coaches in continuous use seems to have been a period 2 brake third to diagram D1735. The last photo I could find shows it coupled to a Stanier CK (D1898) on the 4.00pm Highbridge to Templecombe on 2nd September 1961. I am aware of at least one more appearance of an LMS non-corridor coach. In March/April 1962, a LMS Period 3 BT (D1964) was photographed, but it appears this may have been short-lived.

 

In 1961, the first signs of the impending change to gangwayed coaches appeared. In April 1961, a Stanier SO (D1915) ran with what probably was an ex-GWR BC to diagram E147. In the summer of the same year one set comprised an LMS P2 non-gangwayed brake third and a Stanier CK (D1898). 

There had been the occasional corridor coach before, but as far as I can tell they moved away quickly again. A particularly unusual pairings was recorded in August 1960, when W2659W, a GWR Third to C83, ran with a Mk1 BCK in chocolate and cream and SR Vans behind 4F 44560.

 

By 1962/1963 things were starting to get a little messy - or perhaps I should say varied.  GWR, LMS, LNER and BR coaches - gangwayed and non-gangwayed - all started appearing together. Initially, in addition to GWR B-sets now also non-matching two sets were used. Loose brake compos to E147, E157 and E167 were common, e.g. W6218W, W6284W, W6318W, W7086W. Non-gangwayed brake thirds to D132, e.g. W2764W, and D117, e.g. W5870W, as well as thirds, e.g.  W5199W (C58), could be seen too. Perhaps worth mentioning is M16855W, a Swindon-built coach for the LMS to LMS diagram D2189, which is essentially the pre-war GWR diagram E156. It was seen in June 1962 on a branch train. Matching B-sets disappeared at the end of 1962.

 

In March and April 1962, a non-gangwayed Thompson lavatory composite was captured running with the aforementioned LMS P3 BT to diagram 1964. From at least 9/62 to early 1963, the Thompson 5-compartment brake third E87217E was resident on the branch, as seen in Sir John Betjeman's film Imagine a Branch Line. There it was coupled to with Mk1 63' suburban compo no. W41047.

 

In 1963, gangwayed stock started taking over. For example, in 4/1963, a set with Stanier BCK (diagram 1850/1939) and Stanier SO M9056M (D1915) was used for a while. Mk1 sets consisting of BSK + CK were also common with sightings from the end of 1962 onwards. So far I have only been able to identify CK M15828.

In addition, further GWR-designed corridor coaches appeared. Between 8/63 and 4/64 Collett third (C77) W541W was photographed multiple times. Collett Brake Third (D127) W602W was seen in 10/63. All of these coaches seem to have been coupled to whatever was available, so e.g. a Mk1 suburban composite running with a gangwayed Collett BSK wouldn't be unusual.

 

From 1964 onwards, single Hawksworth brake composites appeared and had become the norm by the time the line closed. Identified numbers include W7383W, W7838W, W7842W, W7844W and possibly W7859W, as well as ex-double-slip coach W7376W, readily identifiable by lack of corridor connections and the additional tanks. BR Mk1 BCKs, e.g. W21063, W21186, and Collett brake composites, e.g. W7366W, were used too but were generally rarer. 

For a bit of variety, green liveried Bullied semi-open brake third W4320S was used from late 1964, typically together with a BCK and the obligatory van.

 

In later years, most trains conveyed a van, mostly SR Van Cs or Bogie Van Bs. Other common choices were Mk1 BGs, LMS 50ft BGs, e.g. M30775M, M30868M, M31312M and from around 1964 Thompson BZs (D358), e.g. E700649E and E70654E. The practice of combining vans and single BCKs led to a number of interesting formations when sets were combined for operational reasons. For example, there are several photos of an SR van C sandwiched between an Mk1 BCK and a Hawksworth BCK, which in turn was tailed by another van.

What still puzzles me, is why vans seem much rarer pre 1963. Perhaps it is just selection bias and up to 1962 most photos were taken at weekends?

 

For photographical evidence I can recommend photos from the footbridge at Highbridge. Most coach sets were stored there, so a single photo can show the composition of perhaps five different sets at once.

[rogerSDJR]

Thank you for sharing all this information and actual coach numbers.

Just to clarify the movement of coaches UP & Dwn the Branch.

Each day, Mon - Sat, two sets of stock were used. Each, Composite & Brake Second, 1948 to 1957.

They were all stored overnight at Highbridge Station, the total number of set, I do not know, but I think it might have been as many as 4.

Set 1 plus Set 2 (ECS) left Highbridge at about 7:00 am to Evercreech Junction, were they were split. (not many photos of this double set can be found).

Set 1 would return to Highbridge at 8:15 am

Set 2 would return to Highbridge at 9:55 am

They would then both run up and down the line for another two runs each way.

Set 1 would return finally at 19:03

Set 2 would return finally at 22:12

Times changed slightly with the alteration of the WTT and varied SX & SO, but remained fairly constant.

After 1957 Set 1 would make the first run of the day from Highbridge - Evercreech Junction - Highbridge on its own and would pick up Set 2 (ECS) for the 9:45 run back the Evercreech. Hence the photos that you see on the line, after that time, show a double set of stock with the ubiquitous van sandwiched in between and on the end, allocated to that turn.

I've never seen a photo of a double set coming back to Highbridge.

However I am yet to come across a photo of two GWR 'B' set running together, or to that matter 'B' set with a van! 

I trust this is of help.

Should there be anymore information or errors in what I've posted I'd be pleased to know.