Suggestions for DCC Controller(s) please

[DCB]

I keep looking at DCC to get some flexibility and more realistic operation, particularly of a terminus, banking operations and double heading. And maybe some functions if I get into building Diesels.
 I followed the thread, “Tactile and high quality DCC controller other than ZTC?” with interest but every suggestion seems to have all the wrong features.

I need to be able to operate up to three locos on the same train independently by three different operators, That is not a consist as balancing out the slipping and the number of wagons being hauled and pushed is what I need.  Also banker dropping off and stopping
A control I can hold in my hand and operate one handed like my DC Morley would be good.

Sounds seem like a lost cause but I would need complete separation of road speed from engine speed. Full Throttle from a standstill from a Diesel Electric, and an ability to run fast ticking over, maybe seven different speeds as per full size...  I guess I would have to drive the loco on one chip and the sound on another...    Ideas?

[Nigelcliffe]

( I'm amazed you've got a DC controller which does independent control of three locos at the same time, however letting that pass...)

 

Any of the touch-screen based throttles can do what you ask - three throttles on the same device at the same time, on the same screen.    Size is your choice of device, from a smaller phone, through to the largest iPad (or Android equivalent).    If going that, way, then many systems have options for control from touch screen android or apple devices.  

 

 

 

- Nigel

[WIMorrison]

Given that you want three different operators working the three different locos at the same time and on the same train almost any DCC system will accommodate this by simply using three separate throttles, one for each operator working a different loco.

 

You use 'glass throttles' as suggested by Nigel above, three fixed position throttles screwed to the layout, three wifi or tethered handheld throttles, or any combination of all three - if you choose the correct system.

[BoD]

1 hour ago, DCB said:

Sounds seem like a lost cause but I would need complete separation of road speed from engine speed. Full Throttle from a standstill from a Diesel Electric, and an ability to run fast ticking over, maybe seven different speeds as per full size...  I guess I would have to drive the loco on one chip and the sound on another...    Ideas?

I think that would depend on the decoder and sound project installed rather than the controller.  Some projects allow you to notch up and down the sound independent of the loco speed. I don’t think it’s seven steps though.  In a similar way others allow you to hit a function button which holds the speed (including stationary) while ‘driving’ the sound - which seems like what you are after.  I’m not sure if there are any that allow you to hold the sound while changing the speed - although judicious application of a brake function may achieve the desired effect.  Anybody else know?

 

Having said that, many of the more recent, better, sound projects do what you want in a realistic way anyway.  I guess you would have  try them out before buying them.

Edited July 15, 2022 by BoD

[meil]

2 hours ago, DCB said:

A control I can hold in my hand and operate one handed like my DC Morley would be good.

   Ideas?

The MERG controller:

 

 

[Nigelcliffe]

10 hours ago, BoD said:

 I’m not sure if there are any that allow you to hold the sound while changing the speed - although judicious application of a brake function may achieve the desired effect.  Anybody else know?

 

 

A diesel sound with "manual notching" will allow independent control of loco speed to engine noises.   So, that allows sound to be held whilst the speed is changed.     Its not a common method of controlling things (because its so easy to get things very wrong as the operator) but its been an option in sound decoders for at least 15 years.  

[DCB]

19 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

( I'm amazed you've got a DC controller which does independent control of three locos at the same time, however letting that pass...)

- Nigel

I don't, that is why I'm looking at DCC,  I do have Morley, OnTrack and H&M Variable Transformers which allow double heading and banking with most combinations of locos as a consist which the resistance controllers and many if not all feedback can't manage, but not independent control which makes it difficult when my Grafar Prairie banker pushes 20 wagons and tries to push the train loco faster than it wants to go.    Thing which really bugs me DC wise is the inability to bring a loco from the buffer stops along to the platform end shunt signal as a train departs, and or bank it.    Not that I have ever seen anyone do it on DCC either. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

A diesel sound with "manual notching" will allow independent control of loco speed to engine noises.   So, that allows sound to be held whilst the speed is changed.     Its not a common method of controlling things (because its so easy to get things very wrong as the operator) but its been an option in sound decoders for at least 15 years.  

Any ideas of suitable makes and models?  of controllers.  Is there any reason I can't use one decoder for sound and a different one for speed?  Most of my diesel memories are of trains starting and stopping, Radiator shutters closing and opening, and  (different moan) the suspension beams moving on the uneven track.  (Cheltenham Spa,  Railtrack main line)

 

 

 

 

17 hours ago, meil said:

The MERG controller:

 

Looks nice, now flexible are the wires?    Can I plug it in in different places as I do with the Morley Hand held?

[Nigelcliffe]

2 hours ago, DCB said:

......... Thing which really bugs me DC wise is the inability to bring a loco from the buffer stops along to the platform end shunt signal as a train departs, and or bank it.    Not that I have ever seen anyone do it on DCC either. 

 

I've done this routinely on layouts for the two decades I've used DCC systems.  Any layout I'm involved with will do either if is an appropriate operation.   If you're not seeing it, it is because operators choose not to do it.   

 

 

Quote

[Manual notching] Any ideas of suitable makes and models?  of controllers.  Is there any reason I can't use one decoder for sound and a different one for speed? 

 

Sound decoders from, at least, ESU, Zimo, D&H, Soundtraxx, Digitrax, (and I suspect many others), all support manual notching of diesel sounds, along with various commands which can hold the sound whilst the speed is changed.    For sound decoders where you are buying a custom sound file (most UK outline prototypes), discuss your driving requirements with the supplier; they may have built their sound files in a way which does, or does not, support your preferred driving style. 

 
Using one decoder for sound and another for drive is possible, but not sensible in my view.  It costs more money, more effort, and over-complicates things.   
May be worth considering if locos are too small (or too challenging) to fit decent sound into, and using track-side sound.  But, for that there are better options which will give better sound than a loco sound decoder. 

 

Quote

 

The MERG controller:

 

Looks nice, now flexible are the wires?    Can I plug it in in different places as I do with the Morley Hand held?

 

 

Pretty flexible.  Yes, it unplugs (and the trains will continue to run whilst it is unplugged).   You need to build it yourself, along with the base unit "command station".  Cost of a system, excluding cases for the base-unit is in the £100 region, plus your time to build it.  

 

 

 

 

[meil]

1 hour ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

 

Pretty flexible.  Yes, it unplugs (and the trains will continue to run whilst it is unplugged).   You need to build it yourself, along with the base unit "command station".  Cost of a system, excluding cases for the base-unit is in the £100 region, plus your time to build it.  

 

For £100 you can get the hand unit (£43) a command station (£34) and a booster (5 amp) (£30)

Edited July 16, 2022 by meil

[Nigelcliffe]

10 hours ago, meil said:

For £100 you can get the hand unit (£43) a command station (£34) and a booster (5 amp) (£30)

 Plus power supplies...    Which are available from MERG at good prices, but are not free.

 

- Nigel

[pauliebanger]

On 15/07/2022 at 22:16, BoD said:

 I’m not sure if there are any that allow you to hold the sound while changing the speed.......  Anybody else know?

 

 

 

Yes BoD, I know.

 

Any of my diesel sound projects (not diesel mechanical, obviously) on ZIMO decoders available from Digitrains can either temporarily fix speed and change engine sounds or temporarily fix sound and vary speed, in each case using the throttle control. (and an F key to select the required action.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul