An independent railway BLT c1900-1910, signalling.

[Nearholmer]

I’ve long pondered the idea of a ‘vanilla’ pre-grouping BLT that could host trains from multiple ‘big’ companies, not all at once, but one company at a time, on the basis of it being the terminus of a very recently acquired independent concern, one of those  independent railways that struggled on in penury, before selling-out at 6d in the pound to the outfit whose main-line bypassed the town by seven miles in 1850.

 

The point for discussion, so not a question, because they aren’t allowed in this sub-forum, is signalling. By this date the line must have implemented lock, block, and brake, and it isn’t a recently built Light Railway using the latest cost-saving options, so my assumption is that it has a compliant, but basic, signalling installation by one of the specialist contractors, probably dating from the 1880s.

 

The Liskeard and Looe, with signally by I think Saxby & Farmer, which didn’t collapse exhausted into the clutches of the GWR until 1909 looks like a good model, but I’d be interested in others that staggered on alone until just either side of 1900, and who provided their signalling.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Nearholmer

[2251]

What about the Pembroke and Tenby Railway? It gained proper signalling, supplied by McKenzie & Holland, shortly before the GWR lease and take-over in 1896/1897.

[Nearholmer]

Good one to look at, thanks.

[Compound2632]

But where not most such lines, whilst remaining nominally independent, leased, worked by, and equipped by, their "local friendly" main-line company? At least by 1889. The exceptions were mostly the sort of lines that had a second life breathed into them by F.H. Stephens,

 

Although an exception that springs to mind is the Severn & Wye, which remained fully independent until selling out to the Great Western and Midland in 1894. It's a line that has been lavishly and expensively documented! 

[Nearholmer]

There were a few that remained genuinely independent, operating under their own management, until c1900, but not very many, which is why I am seeking pointers to those that did.

 

The whole concept of the ‘vanilla pre-grouping BLT’ came to my mind for two reasons:

 

- nearly all good-quality model BLTs have the marks of the owning company stamped all over them, following the dictum that one should be able to identify who owns the place when no train is present, which might be a good recipe in most cases, but doesn’t cut it for some, which when you look at c1900 photos show very few if any ‘badges of owner/operator-ship’, they are still very individual, lacking ‘corporate image’; and,

 

- to give a setting for the very attractive r-t-r models becoming available these days, which seem to come as a drib for this company, followed by a drab for that.

 

If we have a BLT with the sort of station architecture that independents provided, either bonkers grand, wasting half the subscribed share capital, or gloried wooden shed, signalling provided ‘off the peg’, a wooden loco shed and goods shed, water tower and goods crane from a catalogue, and an “edge of old market town somewhere in the southern counties” setting, we might assume it to have been recently taken over by the GWR, LSWR, SECR, LBSCR, LNWR etc, so operated using their trains, and we might have sessions using ‘the old company stock’ (antiquated tank engine and coaches).

 

It would need one really good traffic source, because having a real payer was the only way to stay independent, so I’m thinking some sort of large mill, they being widely distributed across the south, or a really important cattle/sheep market.

 

I’m not thinking post 1896 Light Railway (too modern and not characterful enough c1910)  although it might have used the LR provisions of the earlier Act.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Compound2632]

I understood the premise; it's the paucity of real examples that troubles me. Could one take a real example that was taken over much earlier, say 1870s, and prolong its independent existence? Something like the various lines around Kington, that had a viable staple traffic from the Radnor limestone quarries, and could have fallen to the LNWR, MR, or GWR? 

 

Signalling could be by whichever contractor catches one's fancy.

[Nearholmer]

One could, but this one wouldn’t extend the independence of a real one, because that is too fixed in space, where’s a vanilla one, if done with care, could float around between several counties if the ‘edge of old market town’ was done with care not to include any really, really county-specific things.

 

A mineral is another option for the traffic source, but it’s difficult to think of one that could float about sufficiently. 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by Nearholmer

[kevinlms]

25 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

I understood the premise; it's the paucity of real examples that troubles me. Could one take a real example that was taken over much earlier, say 1870s, and prolong its independent existence?

 

But weren't most of these independent railways, in such dire straits that the locos and coaching stock at least, were in such poor condition that as Nearholmer has suggested, they sold out for 6d in the pound.

This more than suggests that the rolling stock simply wasn't worth keeping and was very quickly replaced with 2nd hand replacements from the purchasing company, maybe even retrieved from the duplicate list or scrap line.

[Compound2632]

16 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

A mineral is another option for the traffic source, but it’s difficult to think of one that could float about sufficiently. 

 

One could go for something on the Yorkshire coalfield, in which case the companies come to you: GCR, GNR, H&BR, LNWR, L&YR, MR, NER (in alphabetical order for the avoidance of the perception of bias). And you can use the same PO wagons for any.

 

But I appreciate that's not really the ambience, or the companies, you have in mind.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Compound2632

[Nearholmer]

Yorkshire?

 

No.

 

Normandy has the sorts of market towns I’m thinking of, but not Yorkshire, so far as I know.

 

 

[Nick Holliday]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

One could, but this one wouldn’t extend the independence of a real one, because that is too fixed in space, where’s a vanilla one, if done with care, could float around between several counties if the ‘edge of old market town’ was done with care not to include any really, really county-specific things.

 

A mineral is another option for the traffic source, but it’s difficult to think of one that could float about sufficiently. 

 

 

What about lime works? Found almost everywhere, from the Southeast to the Northeast and into Wales. The landscape might be different, depending on whether chalk or other limestones was the source, but the structures involved were similar wherever you were.