LMS steel Mineral Wagons / BR Diagram 1/102 - 1960's livery?

[Possy92]

Hi all,

 

I'll keep this question short and sweet!

 

I've just built a Cambrian LMS Steel Mineral wagon, and wish to paint it.

 

The era I'm modelling is 1960s - what colour would it have been (were it not covered in rust!) Initially they were painted LMS bauxite, but I assume they were later painted into Mineral wagon grey?

 

(I want to do an ex-lms one if possible, so it would have the M prefix)

 

I'm struggling to find any pics if I'm honest of any example... unless they didn't last into the 60s!

 

Thanks for your help

 

Cheers

Andy

[br2975]

Many LMS D2109 (later BR Dia. 102) mineral wagons lased into the 1960s, and beyond.

.

There are many resources to use in order to find such wagons in BR use, and their liveries.

.

Paul Bartlett's 'Zenfolio' website would be as good a place as any.

.

There  have been any number of of informative magazine articles published over the years also.

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by br2975

[Sitham Yard]

8 minutes ago, Possy92 said:

Hi all,

 

I'll keep this question short and sweet!

 

I've just built a Cambrian LMS Steel Mineral wagon, and wish to paint it.

 

The era I'm modelling is 1960s - what colour would it have been (were it not covered in rust!) Initially they were painted LMS bauxite, but I assume they were later painted into Mineral wagon grey?

 

(I want to do an ex-lms one if possible, so it would have the M prefix)

 

I'm struggling to find any pics if I'm honest of any example... unless they didn't last into the 60s!

 

Thanks for your help

 

Cheers

Andy

Yes grey, the same as BR built wagons. The go to site as always is Paul Bartlett's wagon photos @hmrspaul. More details and photos in David Larkin's book The Acquired Wagons of British Railways Volume 2. Also the late Don Rowland's book Twilight of the Goods has 1960's wagon photos.

Andrew

[Barclay]

They were built unfitted which suggests a BR livery of pale grey. I don't know if any were subsequently retro-fitted by BR, if they were they would then be Bauxite, assuming they got a repaint. In LMS wagons, vol. 1 there is a 1964 photo of M616285 still running unfitted, with double brakes and definitely grey, if that helps? It has the later - non-pressed end though.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Barclay

[Wickham Green too]

I think only the ( almost ) standard dia. 1/108, 1/109, 1/114 and 1/117  16T wagons included continuously-braked examples ...................................... apart from one batch of china clay wagons, retro-fitting with vacuum brakes was confined to wagons of 10' wb or over - unless anyone knows otherwise.

[hmrspaul]

27 minutes ago, Possy92 said:

Hi all,

 

 

 

The era I'm modelling is 1960s - what colour would it have been (were it not covered in rust!) Initially they were painted LMS bauxite, but I assume they were later painted into Mineral wagon grey?

 

(I want to do an ex-lms one if possible, so it would have the M prefix)

 

I'm struggling to find any pics if I'm honest of any example... unless they didn't last into the 60s!

 

Thanks for your help

 

Cheers

Andy

 

They survived into the 1970s. I have a few in the late 60s in https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmineral

 

Note that they were ageing and those I saw had their sides replated, a very common repair before total replacement began. 

 

There is an alternative - to have it in freight stock red (bauxite similar) as there was a period in the early 1960s when the order to paint unfitted wagons grey was rescinded and all wagons were to be red. This one, which is a similar wagon, but had heavier bearings, shows such a repaint https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmineral/e5254eb6e

 

Paul

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I think only the ( almost ) standard dia. 1/108, 1/109, 1/114 and 1/117  16T wagons included continuously-braked examples ...................................... apart from one batch of china clay wagons, retro-fitting with vacuum brakes was confined to wagons of 10' wb or over - unless anyone knows otherwise.

I thought some minerals were retro fitted - the ones with 4 shoe brakes as opposed to the original purpose built fitted ones which were clasp braked,

 

Theres a separate section for them on Pauls site if i recall correctly.

 

Edit: i think after 1960 though as had ruled them out for my period

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Hal Nail

[Wickham Green too]

43 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

I thought some minerals were retro fitted .... after 1960 ....

I've re-checked the Modellers Backtrack article and you're right : "By 1966 BR had carried out a U-turn ... and  a programme was started to convert 5000  unfitted minerals ... from only four Lots; these being 2919, 2920, 2921, 2922." - so all dia.1/108.