DCC woes with Dapol 156s... what the Dickens is happening????

[Home_Signal]

Hi all,

 

This evening i've been fitting light bars and DCC to my Dapol 156 fleet.  All of which have now got some idiosyncrasies (they don't work properly)- can anyone help?  (I use a Z21 DCC unit)

 

1.  156 - 2 x 6 pin (Imperium 5) fitted. 

• I've placed both the motorised and dummy unit on the programming track.  I try to programme both concurrently to a new address.  "CV Programming Error".  Weirdly, even when i try to read the address the motor on the unit doesn't do its flitting into life, and i get "CV Programming Error". 
• The light bars are on (so its drawing power), and
• WEIRDLY the directional lighting works in both cars when I establish a new loco based on Loco Address 3 (the default) and attempt to drive it. So i know the headlights and tail lights do work, and can be turned on and off and are 'directionally aware'
• But. it won't move and no other functions seem to work.  

 

2.  156 - 2 x NEXT18 (Imperium) fitted:

• Placed both the motorised and dummy units on the programming track and both were able to programmed  to a new address.  
• WEIRDLY:
  • F4 only turns the light bar off in one unit (the non-motorised).  The light bar won't go on/off on any function in the motorised unit
  • The directional lighting works only in the motorised unit, and can be turned on/off with F0.
  • A combination of different functions allows me to turn the headlights/tail lights on off on the non-motorised unit.  

 

As you can imagine, to a newbie DCC'er this is all rather perplexing!!! can anyone deduce what is going on and help.  

 

[jpendle]

For item 1, you might have the decoders in upside down.

 

For item 2, I don't have a Next18 fitted CL156 but probably Dapol have wired the non motorised unit so that F1 and F2 control the head and tail lights on the non-motorised unit. On their Next18 locos F1 and F2 control the head and tail lights at the Number 2 (rear) end.

 

Haven't got a clue about the light bar stuff though.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[jamesed]

Ok, quite a lot to unpack here so apologies if this is quite a long post.

 

First, I'm pretty sure (someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that the Dapol Imperium decoders are Lais decoders re-badged. Now they will work and will be perfect for the non-powered ends of your trains but they are notorious for not running well in locos. Out of the box, motor running is very poor. If you play around with various cv settings then it is possible to improve this but they will never run half as well as a better quality decoder. Normally I'd say go out and buy a couple of Zimo decoders for the motor ends because these will work beautifully straight out of the box and it will be well worth the extra expense. However, there's a shortage of them right now so you may as well stick with what you've got for now but keep an eye out for when the Zimos come back on line. 

 

Now, when we're dealing with Lais decoders you'll only be able to program them using the manual programming option on your Z21. Also, some people have reported that they don't like being programmed on main but that's ok as you've already said you are using your program track.  The Z21 'read driving behaviour' button on the first screen of cv ptogramming won't work with this decoder. You'll need to go straight to manual.

 

What you have here with your 156 units are two different generations of model which work differently from each other so we need to treat each one differently.

 

Let's start with the newer model unit with the Next18 decoders. Pop the motorised unit onto the program track.  Open the CV Programming page on your Z21 app. Once that screen has opened look for the manual tab button at the top if the screen and tap on it which will open a different screen. Then look on the left hand menu and select program track which will change the screen again slightly.  Ok, now select cv1 and then click on read cv which should return a value of 3.  That will prove that your N18 chip is mounted properly and it's working as it should.  If it doesn't read the chip then check that you have got it seated properly in the socket. Also make sure that your program track is clean.  At this point it's worth noting that to reset a Lais/ Imperium chip it's cv8=4 which is different from most others that use a value of 8. It might be worth running a reset before you start anything else just in case something has been changed on the chip already. Before you do that put the non-motorised unit on the track along with the motorised unit.  Select cv8 and the enter 4 in the value box and tap on program.  Assuming that all went well, now we can move onto the next stage.

 

What address are you trying to set for each unit?  Lais decoders only support up to address 99 for short addressing in cv1. If you are happy with a short address then just write your one or two digit address into cv1 and program. If you want to use a higher number address then that it's not a problem but you'll need to make the cv changes manually (the Z21 quick address setting won't work) so stay in the manual program track screen.  To use a long address you need to work out the values for cv17 and cv18. You can use this calculator. (Just enter a 3 digit or 4 digit address and click on the calculate button). Once you've sorted that you'll also need to make a change in cv29 to enable long addressing. You can work that value out for yourself using this calculator or for now just enter a value of 34 into cv29. which will also turn off dc running ability and railcom which you most likely aren't needing to use anyway.

 

You should now have a 156 that will run (albeit probably in an unrefined manner) using the address you have programmed. Assuming that's the case let's move on to lighting.  You'll need to do a bit of re-mapping. First, for the directional lights make the following changes:

cv33=3

cv34=6

That should put all your running lights onto F0.  If you later find that they are the wrong way around you can simply reverse that to 

cv33=6

cv34=3

Either way you should now have a combination of white one end and red the other when F0 is on. 

 

For the light bar, by default this should be wired to F4 but ideally you want to re-map it to F1 so make this change (so that it will match your other 156):

cv35=32

cv38=0

Hopefully you will now find that your light bars switch on and off with F1.

 

Just to add that if you later swap over to a Zimo decoder in the powered unit you will also need to change cv124 to value 128 on just that decoder but that's not an issue with Lais decoders because they don't support function breaking.

 

If all has gone well your N18 fitted 156 should all now be set up and working as you expect.

 

Now, I'm not familiar with the older 6-pin version of the 156 so hopefully John or someone else will step in and help here where I am a bit vague. Anyway, first things first, as John P has already suggested, make sure you have fitted your 6 pin decoders the right way up. It's very easy to get that wrong - we've all been there at some time!  It's easy enough to check, if you put the motorised unit on the track and it runs using an address of 3 then its the right way up. If it doesn't run then remove the decoder and put it in the other way up.  Once you have figured out the right way up for the motorised unit fit the one in the non-motorised unit the same way. 

 

You can run a re-set and set up your address for the two cars in exactly the same way as described above for the N18 fitted train.  Again, make sure you are in manual programming and have selected program track in the Z21 app. 

 

The directional running lights should, by default,  work correctly when you switch on F0. There shouldn't be any need to do any re-mapping.

 

Now we come to the light bar and this is where I'm on unfamiliar territory with the older 6-pin version of the 156.  Do you have the original instruction leaflet that came with it because that may help.  First we need to establish whether or not the light bar is even wired so that it can be switched by the decoder.  The earlier Dapol 6 pin decoders (up to Imperium 4) were only 2 functions, both of which were used for the running lights so wouldn't have been able to control the light bar aswell.  The Imperium 5 is, I think, a 4 function chip but that won't necessarily help if the 156 wasn't originally wired for that and I'm not even sure that would be possible because the F1 and F2 outputs aren't on the pins so unless the chip was pre-fitted and the wires attached to the solder pads it wouldn't work without additional wiring anyway.  I have read that there should be a switch on the underside of the carriage to turn the light bar on or off. Make sure that is switched on. With all of your functions switched off, put the unit on the track. If the light bar lights up straightaway then it's most likely wired straight to the pick ups (like on the Mk3 coaches) and you won't be able to control it with your dcc functions without modification.    If it doesn't light up straightaway that's good news. Try Function 1 or Function 2 and hopefully one of those will switch it on or off.

 

If the light bar isn't wired to the decoder then you can modify it by soldering one of the light bar power wires to the decoder pads I'm not sure how easy that is with an Imperium decoder but should be possible if you can identify the F1 solder pad. Someone on here will be able to advise on that.

 

I hope all of that makes sense. Please do report back on how you get on.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by jamesed

[Home_Signal]

12 hours ago, jamesed said:

Ok, quite a lot to unpack here so apologies if this is quite a long post.

 

First, I'm pretty sure (someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that the Dapol Imperium decoders are Lais decoders re-badged. Now they will work and will be perfect for the non-powered ends of your trains but they are notorious for not running well in locos. Out of the box, motor running is very poor. If you play around with various cv settings then it is possible to improve this but they will never run half as well as a better quality decoder. Normally I'd say go out and buy a couple of Zimo decoders for the motor ends because these will work beautifully straight out of the box and it will be well worth the extra expense. However, there's a shortage of them right now so you may as well stick with what you've got for now but keep an eye out for when the Zimos come back on line. 

 

Now, when we're dealing with Lais decoders you'll only be able to program them using the manual programming option on your Z21. Also, some people have reported that they don't like being programmed on main but that's ok as you've already said you are using your program track.  The Z21 'read driving behaviour' button on the first screen of cv ptogramming won't work with this decoder. You'll need to go straight to manual.

 

What you have here with your 156 units are two different generations of model which work differently from each other so we need to treat each one differently.

 

Let's start with the newer model unit with the Next18 decoders. Pop the motorised unit onto the program track.  Open the CV Programming page on your Z21 app. Once that screen has opened look for the manual tab button at the top if the screen and tap on it which will open a different screen. Then look on the left hand menu and select program track which will change the screen again slightly.  Ok, now select cv1 and then click on read cv which should return a value of 3.  That will prove that your N18 chip is mounted properly and it's working as it should.  If it doesn't read the chip then check that you have got it seated properly in the socket. Also make sure that your program track is clean.  At this point it's worth noting that to reset a Lais/ Imperium chip it's cv8=4 which is different from most others that use a value of 8. It might be worth running a reset before you start anything else just in case something has been changed on the chip already. Before you do that put the non-motorised unit on the track along with the motorised unit.  Select cv8 and the enter 4 in the value box and tap on program.  Assuming that all went well, now we can move onto the next stage.

 

What address are you trying to set for each unit?  Lais decoders only support up to address 99 for short addressing in cv1. If you are happy with a short address then just write your one or two digit address into cv1 and program. If you want to use a higher number address then that it's not a problem but you'll need to make the cv changes manually (the Z21 quick address setting won't work) so stay in the manual program track screen.  To use a long address you need to work out the values for cv17 and cv18. You can use this calculator. (Just enter a 3 digit or 4 digit address and click on the calculate button). Once you've sorted that you'll also need to make a change in cv29 to enable long addressing. You can work that value out for yourself using this calculator or for now just enter a value of 34 into cv29. which will also turn off dc running ability and railcom which you most likely aren't needing to use anyway.

 

You should now have a 156 that will run (albeit probably in an unrefined manner) using the address you have programmed. Assuming that's the case let's move on to lighting.  You'll need to do a bit of re-mapping. First, for the directional lights make the following changes:

cv33=3

cv34=6

That should put all your running lights onto F0.  If you later find that they are the wrong way around you can simply reverse that to 

cv33=6

cv34=3

Either way you should now have a combination of white one end and red the other when F0 is on. 

 

For the light bar, by default this should be wired to F4 but ideally you want to re-map it to F1 so make this change (so that it will match your other 156):

cv35=8

cv38=0

Hopefully you will now find that your light bars switch on and off with F1.

 

Just to add that if you later swap over to a Zimo decoder in the powered unit you will also need to change cv124 to value 128 on just that decoder but that's not an issue with Lais decoders because they don't support function breaking.

 

If all has gone well your N18 fitted 156 should all now be set up and working as you expect.

 

Now, I'm not familiar with the older 6-pin version of the 156 so hopefully John or someone else will step in and help here where I am a bit vague. Anyway, first things first, as John P has already suggested, make sure you have fitted your 6 pin decoders the right way up. It's very easy to get that wrong - we've all been there at some time!  It's easy enough to check, if you put the motorised unit on the track and it runs using an address of 3 then its the right way up. If it doesn't run then remove the decoder and put it in the other way up.  Once you have figured out the right way up for the motorised unit fit the one in the non-motorised unit the same way. 

 

You can run a re-set and set up your address for the two cars in exactly the same way as described above for the N18 fitted train.  Again, make sure you are in manual programming and have selected program track in the Z21 app. 

 

The directional running lights should, by default,  work correctly when you switch on F0. There shouldn't be any need to do any re-mapping.

 

Now we come to the light bar and this is where I'm on unfamiliar territory with the older 6-pin version of the 156.  Do you have the original instruction leaflet that came with it because that may help.  First we need to establish whether or not the light bar is even wired so that it can be switched by the decoder.  The earlier Dapol 6 pin decoders (up to Imperium 4) were only 2 functions, both of which were used for the running lights so wouldn't have been able to control the light bar aswell.  The Imperium 5 is, I think, a 4 function chip but that won't necessarily help if the 156 wasn't originally wired for that and I'm not even sure that would be possible because the F1 and F2 outputs aren't on the pins so unless the chip was pre-fitted and the wires attached to the solder pads it wouldn't work without additional wiring anyway.  I have read that there should be a switch on the underside of the carriage to turn the light bar on or off. Make sure that is switched on. With all of your functions switched off, put the unit on the track. If the light bar lights up straightaway then it's most likely wired straight to the pick ups (like on the Mk3 coaches) and you won't be able to control it with your dcc functions without modification.    If it doesn't light up straightaway that's good news. Try Function 1 or Function 2 and hopefully one of those will switch it on or off.

 

If the light bar isn't wired to the decoder then you can modify it by soldering one of the light bar power wires to the decoder pads I'm not sure how easy that is with an Imperium decoder but should be possible if you can identify the F1 solder pad. Someone on here will be able to advise on that.

 

I hope all of that makes sense. Please do report back on how you get on.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi James, thank you for your detailed instructions.  

 

I don't know what's going on! sigh... i'm still in a pickle.  

 

on the plus side i realised that i didn't have the full app, and was using the "mobile HD" version.  So at least now i have the more detailed Z21 app

 

Firstly I did check the decoders were in the right way etc, and the answer is yes.  I.e. when they were put the other way... you get everything ON and that funny noise like the motor is going. 

 

So where are we:

- On the NEXT18 fitted 156.  Very weird:

• I actually put the decoders in a 153 to check things are working.  Kind of was the conclusion.  In the 153 for both chips F4 was doing the light bar, but there was definitely an issue with the head/tail lights, i.e. F0 wasn't working, and only headlights would come on on F2 (when i tried the 153 on analogue they all illuminate correctly with direction).  I also went thought your steps but no change in circumstance. 
• With the decoders the returned to the 156... When the motorised unit was on the programming track on its own, F4 was controlling the light bar... BUT... when i put this on the track with the non-motorised unit it goes back to being permanently on (in the motorised), whilst F4 is turning the lightbar off on the non-motorised happily. 
• F0 only is only doing tail lights, but not headlights.
• However, F2 has decided to control the headlight in the motorised, but its  not directional.  
• F2 in the non-motorised is now turning both the tail and headlights on/off together. 
• Interestingly i also note the marker lights don't illuminate. 
• The whole thing with the lights is as if the decoder isn't correctly mapped to the lights themselves. i.e. the DCC is turning things on/off... but its just not the right one.

In short the Next18 156 is like some programming went in part to one chip, and other stuff went in part to the other chip.  BUT neither is doing it all right. 

 

On the 6 Pin 156.  As before, the lights are controlled by F0.  BUT... it doesn't move.  I did fire up the analogue (back with the blanking plate in) and it worked fine.  I did check both decoders in another loco, and they were working correctly (i.e. F0 controlled lights bi-directionally and it moved)

 

Thoughts gratefully received but i'm starting to ask the question:  Does anyone does a 'programming service'? where you can send you stuff to someone and they just sort it all out?  

[jamesed]

Ok, don't panic. Let's go back to basics and srart again.  It would be hrlpful if you can answer the following questions:

 

1. Is it a Z21 (the black box version) you own or is it a z21 (white box version)?
2. Assuming it's the black Z21 you have talked about using a program track, explain how this is set up - ie do you have a single short length of straight track (how long?) which not connected to your main layout and is wired back directly to the program track outputs of the Z21? 
3. How are you connecting your dcc signal to your program track? What size wire have you used and is it soldered to the track or connected some other way?
4. Talk us through how your layout is wired, dcc bus? how many droppers?
5. You've talked about running on dc. Do you have your dc controller connected (whether on or off)  to the track at the same time as your dcc signal? 
6. Where have you purchased your locos from?
7. Are all the dcc decoders you are using on your layout Dapol Imperium or do you have any other types?
8. Have you actually managed to successfully program a new address into any locos or have you so far only run any train on address 3?
9. If you have managed to program addresses successfully and run the trains on the new address are these addresses higher or lower than 100?
10. When you launch the Z21 app does the screen look like one of these screenshots:

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by jamesed

[jpendle]

Hi,

 

Echoing James' sentiments. don't panic!

 

I think it might be best if you were to concentrate on just the Next18 decoders for now, and try them in the CL153 as you will be able to test all the light functions at the same time.

 

So first of all reset the decoder. In the screen shown in James' post select CV Programming and then Manual, writing 4 to CV8 will reset the decoder.

Next you will need to remap the function outputs so that function key F0 controls the head and tailights. To do this set CV33 to 9 and CV34 to 6, this will map function outputs 1 and 2 to F0.

But there will still be an issue because Function outputs 1 & 2 don't have directional wiring, unlike Function Outputs F0f & F0r. So you need to program another couple of CV's to get function outputs 1 & 2 to behave in a directional manner. Now the Lais manual is clear as mud, but I think that you will need to set CV51 to 16 which will make the headlights at the number 2 end come on when you are running in reverse and CV52 to 0 which will make the taillights at the number 2 end come on when running forwards.

 

Please try this out and get back to us, I am assuming that Dapol have wired the Next18 sockets in these units just like they have in their CL66 and CL68 locos, so we shall see.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[Home_Signal]

On 29/08/2022 at 07:28, jamesed said:

Ok, don't panic. Let's go back to basics and srart again.  It would be hrlpful if you can answer the following questions:

 

1. Is it a Z21 (the black box version) you own or is it a z21 (white box version)?   - Yes its the black box version.
2. Assuming it's the black Z21 you have talked about using a program track, explain how this is set up - ie do you have a single short length of straight track (how long?) which not connected to your main layout and is wired back directly to the program track outputs of the Z21? - Thats it, its about 1.5 Ft long, its completely stand alone from the main track.  +Ve / -Ve wires are soldered onto the track, with them being directly then (via the plug) inputted into the the programme track port of the Z21.  
3. How are you connecting your dcc signal to your program track? What size wire have you used and is it soldered to the track or connected some other way? The wires are relatively heavy duty, as they are the same wiring that is used on the power curcuits to the layout itself
4. Talk us through how your layout is wired, dcc bus? how many droppers? - pass.
5. You've talked about running on dc. Do you have your dc controller connected (whether on or off)  to the track at the same time as your dcc signal? This is completed disconnected from the track (both programme and main) when i want to test something with DC, i ultimately unwire the plug being used into the Z21 socket and then put those wires directly into the connectors in the gaugemaster unit.  
6. Where have you purchased your locos from? Variety of sources, but the ones in question came directly from retailers.  The NEXT18 156 from C&M models in Carlisle, and the 6 Pin 156 from the RMS in Bham.  Things like my 153 came from Kernow / Rails of Sheffield.  
7. Are all the dcc decoders you are using on your layout Dapol Imperium or do you have any other types? All Dapol imperium.  purchased from Rails of Sheffield and Kernow and Dapol directly (as with the lightbars)
8. Have you actually managed to successfully program a new address into any locos or have you so far only run any train on address 3? Yes, this aspect is definitely working.  More so now i'm using the correct version of the Z21 app (as per your screen shots below)
9. If you have managed to program addresses successfully and run the trains on the new address are these addresses higher or lower than 100? (both)
10. When you launch the Z21 app does the screen look like one of these screenshots:  As per the upper one (ipad based)

 

 

Hello, answers above, and thank you again for your support.  I've had some progress/success in part, but i'll put that in the response to John.  I'm still in the space of (whilst not fully understanding the coding aspect of DCC) thinking that there are some parameters (like lights) which are mapping to random functions.... and not consistently between the motorised and non-motorised units.  For example the internal lighting with the NEXT18 156.  One of the units does switch on/off the lightbar via F4 but the other doesn't, like the CV which controls the internal lighting ono that unit is mapping to a function beyond the 6 that i can control.  You may read that and judge my level of understanding :)

[Home_Signal]

On 29/08/2022 at 16:20, jpendle said:

Hi,

 

Echoing James' sentiments. don't panic!

 

I think it might be best if you were to concentrate on just the Next18 decoders for now, and try them in the CL153 as you will be able to test all the light functions at the same time.

 

So first of all reset the decoder. In the screen shown in James' post select CV Programming and then Manual, writing 4 to CV8 will reset the decoder.

Next you will need to remap the function outputs so that function key F0 controls the head and tailights. To do this set CV33 to 9 and CV34 to 6, this will map function outputs 1 and 2 to F0.

But there will still be an issue because Function outputs 1 & 2 don't have directional wiring, unlike Function Outputs F0f & F0r. So you need to program another couple of CV's to get function outputs 1 & 2 to behave in a directional manner. Now the Lais manual is clear as mud, but I think that you will need to set CV51 to 16 which will make the headlights at the number 2 end come on when you are running in reverse and CV52 to 0 which will make the taillights at the number 2 end come on when running forwards.

 

Please try this out and get back to us, I am assuming that Dapol have wired the Next18 sockets in these units just like they have in their CL66 and CL68 locos, so we shall see.

 

Regards,

 

John P

Hi John, thank you (and to James) for the input.  I've been following the instructions closely and in combination with my own explorations had some progress... but not successes completely.  

 

On the 6 Pin unit.  I put (individually) both decoders in a trusty loco.  Conducted a C8=4 reset.  I've then popped them back into the 156 (this is the one where F0 and F2 where controlling the lighting and directionally, but there was no movement whatsoever).  Well.... for no reason known to man, life has been brought to the unit.  So... it now moves, F0 controls the directional lighting on/off..... but.... the interior lights is not able to be switched on/off.  My uninformed guess is that whatever CV controls the interior lighting is not allocated to Function correctly, or the value of it is not making sense to the decoder.  But largely it is now working.  

 

On the NEXT18 156.  Its gone back to where i was originally was following a CV8=4 reset.

- F0 turns on the bi-directional lighting in one of the units,

- F2 turns on the bi-directional lighting in the other (!!!)

- F4 turns on the interior lighting only in one of the units.

- there is no function which is controlling the internal lighting in the other unit

- the marker lights still do not illuminate, only the headlight.  

 

So the upshot of that is i can run the 156 with it looking 'correct-ish' and if i'm not fussed about turning off the interior lights in both cars then its all good.  

 

The thing i'm trying to get my head around is the relationship between:

- the CVs : it seems that some have specific meanings, like 1 is the loco address value, etc.  

- the circuits/ports (whats the correct term) on the loco its, there is something to do with Fof, For, Aux 1 Aux 2 etc.  (to which i believe specific aspects like headlights are tagged)

- the functions 0-5.  

 

I.e. what is it the programming is changing and what is fixed.  As given the 'quirks' with my 156s, it feels like there is a misalignment between the two decoders one of the 156s, such that the circuit that controls the interior lighting is mapped to either different CVs, or that the values of those CV differ between the decoders, such that when i use F4... on one the decoder is happy, the value on the relevant CV makes sense, but on the other the value doesn't make sense so its having no effect.  

[Nigelcliffe]

10 minutes ago, Home_Signal said:

On the 6 Pin unit.  I put (individually) both decoders in a trusty loco.  Conducted a C8=4 reset.  I've then popped them back into the 156 (this is the one where F0 and F2 where controlling the lighting and directionally, but there was no movement whatsoever).  Well.... for no reason known to man, life has been brought to the unit.  So... it now moves, F0 controls the directional lighting on/off..... but.... the interior lights is not able to be switched on/off.  My uninformed guess is that whatever CV controls the interior lighting is not allocated to Function correctly, or the value of it is not making sense to the decoder.  But largely it is now working.  

 

In a six pin decoder, the pins are:  pickups (two), motor (two), front light, rear light.   And that's the lot.   The other side of the front and rear lights come from the pickups.   

What is likely is the manufacturer has wired the interior lights directly to the pickups, so they work all the time, or alternatively, they've wired them to both the front and rear light outputs, using diodes so they work whenever the either the front or rear lights are operated. 

 

To achieve independent control of the interior lights requires wiring changes inside the loco, and additional wires connecting to the decoder.  

 

 

 

I'll leave the Next18 decoder alone for now, it will take too long for me to work out what might be happening, and John seems to be well on the way to an explanation of it all.  

 

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

[jamesed]

@Home_Signal you've already been given many of the answers you have sought but for some reason you don't seem to have followed the guidance given. Maybe you are struggling at a more basic level with the conepts involved. That's why I asked you to answer some basic questions in my previous post so that we can get a better understanding of where you are and how best to advise you.  Most importantly we need to know whether you have actually been able to successfully re-program cv values (following the instructions previously given).  To that end, what loco 'address' have you got for each of your trains?   Are you still working with the default '3' or have you managed to change it?

 

Regarding your 6-pin train: it sounds like you have that working ok and as expected. As Nigel has explained, you won't be able to switch the lightbar from the decoder functions, it will just be on the whole time (unless you want to do a bit of internal modification with wires and soldering).  Have a look underneath the cars and you may find a little switch to manually turn the lightbars on or off. (That's only a maybe because I've only read about that not experienced it myself as I don't own that model). 

 

Now, the Next18 version:  exactly what manufacturer decoders are you using? I'm suspecting that they aren't both the same. It is important that you provide us with this information as that may be the reason one of them is not switching the lights on F4. We will need to know the decoder make in order to tell you how to fix this. (if you don't have the original packaging and don't know the answer to that, read the value of cv8 on each chip and tell us what value is returned  - you will need to transfer the chip in the unpowered car to the powered car to do that).  Regarding the directional lighting, you have already been told how to resolve this. CV33=9 and CV34=6 will put them all onto F0.  Then set CV35 and CV36 to 0 which will avoid any confusion through inadvertent use of F1 and F2.   Try this first and this should sort out the directional running lights providing you have managed to master the art of cv programming.  Once you get back to us with the information about the decoders then we'll tell you how to get your lightbars working as they should.

 

[jamesed]

Apologies, I have only just seen that you did answer my questions within the quote box.   That's great, now we can hopefully get you on track.

 

Ok, so I think, as per my previous post, the 6-pin chip version of the 156 is working ok even though, with this model, it's not possible to switch the lightbar from dcc functions.

 

Let's do as John said and focus on the the N18 version.

 

First, put both cars on the program track.  

Now go to 'cv programming' / 'manual' tab / 'program track' 

For cv8 enter a value of 4  which will restore defaults to both decoders.

Now, program:

cv33=9

cv34=6

That will map the outputs of the running lights to F0

Now program 

cv35=32

That will re-map function output 4 to F1

Now program

cv36=0

cv37=0

cv38=0

which will simply clear the previous assignments to F2, F3 and F4 just to clean thing up a bit and avoid any mis-switching.

 

Now, to program the address that you want for that train.

 

If you want an address between 1 and 99 then simply program 

cv1 =  two digit address number 

also at this stage, program 

cv29=2. which will turn off dc running as a safety measure. If you want to turn it back on again at any time just reprogram cv29 to value of 6.

 

If you want an address of 100 or above it gets a bit more complicated:

For an address between 100 and 255 then program:

cv17=192

cv18= your preferred address between 100-255

and then program

cv29=34

which will switch on 'long address' recognition and the chip will ignore the cv1 value.  That setting will also disable dc running which is just a safety measure for now. If you want to turn it back on again at any time just reprogram cv29 to value of 38.

 

If you want to set an address of 256 or more then it gets a bit less straightforward but if you go to this webpage you can use the calculator to find the necessary values required for cv17 snd cv18. Then it's as above for cv29=34 etc.

 

Now come out of cv orogramming and back to the main menu.

Go to 'vehicles'

Click the + button  to add a new vehicle and choose type 'loco'

Click on the data tab if this isn't already live.

Enter the address that you've entered for the train. 

Enter a name for the train, i.e. Class 156. N18 (or anything you wish)

Under the locomotive data heading click on the right arrow just to the right of the generic loco image outline and . . 

then click on select from camera/gallery. Follow the prompts to take a photo of your 156 on your ipad, then once the image is selected it will let you crop it to size. Click on crop and the image will be saved.

Now click on the 'functions' tab.

tap on CI which light in orange. The program options will show below or to the right  for that function. It should default to function number 0 which is what you want so don't change it. It should also default to switch as the tyoe which again is what you want so don't change it. Tap 'symbol' snd then select 'light 1' from the list that comes up. 

Now tap on CII at the top and that will now go orange.

For this, change the function number to 1.  For the symbol scroll down the sybol options and you will see one for interior lights. Select this.

 

Now, using the back arrow at the top  left of your screen go back to the main menu. 

 

Now click on the big button in the middle of the screen, or labelled steering in the phone app screen.  You should now find your 156 in your list of available locos. Tap on this to take control of it.  The F0 button should control your running lights. The F1 button should turn your lightbars on and off. The throttle slider should make the train go forwards or backwards.

 

With F0 switched on, just check that when you select forward direction you have white headlamps at the front for direction of travel and red at the back. If this is the wrong way around then you can correct it by going back to manual cv programming and changing

cv33 to 6. and. cv34 to 9.

 

That's it.  Hopefully it now all works fine so transfer it  onto your main track and give it a run

 

Once you are happy with all that then come back and we'll give you some advice about changing cv2-cv6 which may improve the running.

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by jamesed