Early 1970's South Wales freight workings

[The Stationmaster]

I reckon that 6V55 must have included some fitted wagons - provided that it had sufficient Brake force to comply with that shown in Section E of theLoads book  it almost complied.  However in 1970/71 Class 6 was definitely a fully fitted train.  

 

Part of the answer should lie in the Timing Load (they were the opposite way round back then) so H3 would be a relatively light train compared with the capability of the booked traction but it also means that it would be timed up to a fairly fast Class 6 timing.  Which leaves me wondering if it really was formed with fitted wagons?  Class 8 at that time was in any case a partially fitted train with a required level of Brake Force.

 

Incidentally as far as South wales at that perid was concerned alot of freight movement were not shown in the WTTs but were in local trip books or weekly programnes.  For example both Radyr and Aberdare had a booked daily ballast train that could run to just about anywhere between Fishguard and somewhere north of Hereford. / eact of the Severn Tunnel.  At Radyr in 1973 we had two Manned Conditional trains on each of the three weekday shifts - one being a 'short' Manned Conditional which would normally run no further than 'the Tunnel' (Severn Tunnel Jcn) or Margam/Briton Ferry.  The 'long' Manned Conditional could go as far as Acton, one of the Bristol yards, Hereford or Gloucester (with trains for beyond either) and  Jersey Marine or Landeilo Jcn but it normally ran to an English destination.  The booked working for these was published on a weekly programme but subject to daily alteration by either Notice or by Control and that all partly depended on the way collieries were turning coal and what traffic needed to be cleared.

 

The Manned Conditionals were a good replacement for what had happened in the late '60s - pre Blocplan days - when as many a seven specials would be run on a Sunday from the Tunnel to Acton to clear surplus traffic.

 

The Hymeks were lovely machines - far and away the best riding of the diesel hydraulics although in some respects that was because their riding was good throughout their speed range.  And far better riding than the WR's diesel electrics.  Their big problem was lack of Brake Force compared with the far heavier EE Type 3 and this was one reason why the English electric design was chosen instead of the Hymek for South Wales dieselisation because the EE loco could stop (most of the time) the heavy Class 9 trains coming down the Valleys far more effectively than a Hymek could manage.  but in power terms there wasn't much in it and the Hymeks had the often overlooked advantage of effectively being what amounted to an eight coupled loco.  Once their early problems were sorted they were pretty reliable and it was a great shame to see them go; I had my last ride on one on the Radstock branch trip after I returned from South Wales to England in 1974

[BR traction instructor]

…beware potential red herring but it would at least part solve our puzzle if fitted hoppers formed a fitted head at one end or both…photographer unknown just now, pic forwarded to me years ago.

 

37083 ex works allows date to be checked.

 

BeRTIe

Edited August 31, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[The Stationmaster]

They look like 21ton hoppers?

[BR traction instructor]

…I’d go for 24T…certainly not coke hoppers.

 

BeRTIe

Edited August 31, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[Fat Controller]

36 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

They look like 21ton hoppers?

Looking at the number of side stanchions, I'd agree that it appears to be a mixture of as-built and rebodied 21t hoppers.

[Phil Bullock]

1 hour ago, BR traction instructor said:

…I’d go for 24T…certainly not coke hoppers.

 

BeRTIe

But looks like all grey unfitted …. ? Running as class 8 still has brake van

[BR traction instructor]

Useful to have a range of Working Manuals to consult, covering 1969-83 re-issue dates. The 1969 White pages are most relevant to our discussion…

 

BeRTIe

[BR traction instructor]

[BR traction instructor]

[BR traction instructor]

[BR traction instructor]

[BR traction instructor]

[BR traction instructor]

[BR traction instructor]

[Phil Bullock]

@BR traction instructor my word those are a gold mine! But the key one for me is the definition of a class 6 train …. Which is what I would have expected … fully fitted. So how can 6V55 run as a class 6 when it is made up of empty coke hoppers? Not vb fitted….

[BR traction instructor]

I suspect piped only coke hoppers interspersed with fitted coal hoppers, or else a rake of fitted coal hoppers allocated to this diagram. We need some pictures of the trains to make better sense of it though.

 

Otherwise, the class 6 path was simply used to show the importance & urgency of getting a partially fitted or unfitted working back more quickly for reloading.

 

BeRTIe

Edited August 31, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[br2975]

10 hours ago, D860 VICTORIOUS said:

Morning gents,

Lots of fascinating info to digest,Brian R your knowledge on this subject is exhaustive! Was a bit surprised to see from your notes that Peaks had a working from STJ to one of the pits.Many pictures have been published showing Hymeks ambling along on remote West Wales branch lines,with a handful of 16t coal wagons or a few milk tanks,way below their capabilities and I always thought very wasteful.A bit OT,but another side to the coin is I can remember Hymeks on the Greenford loop heading quite lengthy freights(possibly to/from Park Royal).

As Mike said earlier,please ramble on at whatever time suits,it's fabulous stuff.

It's informative to get gen from The Johnster and BerTIe,who were on the front line when all of this was happening,and to now know how much went into preparing a freight is a real insight into proper railway work.

phil_sutters' pics of the flyash trains are interesting,have seen very few pics of those workings.

Phil B,cheers for re-posting your coke hopper piccies,just what the troops needed! I know this ought to be in the modelling section,but while we're about it,do you remove the line of rivets 🥴🤔 from where the lower  hopper slopes inwards,and is there any sort of lip along the wagon top edge? Am I now a rivet counter...NO!!

Fabulous stuff guys,thank you.100% agree that Hymeks were magnificent loco's,perhaps always overshadowed by the Westerns.Final drop of nostalgia from me:on 16th August 1972,we were waiting at Ealing Broadway for a dmu to Reading,when D7026 made a stop at the down main platform to pick up,no idea why.My only Hymek haulage in BR days...

Neil.

 

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A few more of my ramblings

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PEAKS

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Peaks venturing 'into the valleys proper' were always a bit of a rarity; albeit they were a daily sight as far as Radyr.

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Well before April, 1969 a  Peak was employed regularly on the                                                                          

07:25 Severn Tunnel Jcn. – Bargoed Pits, and                                                               

12:15 Bargoed Pits – Middlesbrough

This worked down the SWML to Cardiff West, then around the back of Canton onto the PH&D (now City Line) to Radyr, then taffs Well where at Walnut Tree Junction they ascended the 'Big Hill' to Aber Junction and the Rhymney Valley.

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Around the same time, and during its layover, the  Cl.45 loco off the 6V23 19:57 Tunstead – Margam worked the 09:30 Llandarcy – Ebbw Vale oil train (100 ton bogie tanks) , and the 15:10 Ebbw Vale – Llandarcy empties, returning north on the 20:55 Margam – Tunstead empties

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By the following year, 1970, the following South Wales workings were booked for Peak haulage.

                                                                                               

11:15 TThO Bargoed – Middlesbrough,                                                                         

8M28 13:40 MWFO Cardiff – Corby,                                                                                         

8M27 20:35 WFO Cardiff – Stanton Gate,                                                                                           

8E52  20:35 TThO Cardiff – Treeton,                                                                                       

...........12:40 Severn Tunnel Jcn. – Washwood Heath,                                                               

...........00:55 Toton – Uskmouth,                                                                                                

...........09:33 Tees- Severn Tunnel Jcn.                                                                                              

..........22:05 Tavistock Jcn. – Cardiff (between Bristol & Severn Tunnel Jcn. only)                     

...........19:57 Tunstead – Margam,                                                                                               

...........20:55 Margam – Tunstead,                                                                                               

7M45 15:43 Llandilo Jcn. – Leicester

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PFA (Pulverised Fuel / Fly Ash) 

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Commencing 1st. April, 1970  MGR ‘Fly Ash’ trains began  running between Aberthaw and Puxton in connection with the construction of the M5 Motorway across the Somerset Levels. Four trains run each day, hauled by 2x Cl.37s. The locomotives and crews were supposedly supplied by Bristol, Bath Road Depot, but STJ men worked them as well..                                                                  

Puxton Departures are 02:50, 08:25, 16:48 and 21:32.                                               

 Aberthaw Departures are 02:45, 06:57, 12:37 and 21:00

Aberthaw – Highbridge PFA trains increased to six daily, with 2x Cl.47 haulage and 35 32ton MGR hoppers, replacing the previous single Cl.47 and 26 wagons.       

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This later increased to three 'sets' which worked as shown below;

 (1)                                                                                                                                  

02:40 Aberthaw – Highbridge and 08:05 return,                                                                   

13:45 Aberthaw – Highbridge and 21:30 return,                                                                   

(2)                                                                                                                                   

06:00 Aberthaw – Highbridge and 13:30 return,                                                               

14:53 Aberthaw – Highbridge and 01:10 return, SuX                                                                 

(3)                                                                                                                                 

11:28 Aberthaw – Highbridge and 17:40 return,                                                                        

22:20 Aberthaw – Highbridge and 05:40 return,

 

As a result of these extra workings Cardiff, Canton (86A) then had 38x Cl.37 workings,                                                                    

6x Aberthaw-Highbridge PFA traffic,                                                                                      

6x Waterston – Albion oil trains,                                                                                

17x outstabled at Radyr,                                                                                                                        

5x outstabled at Aberdare,                                                                                                      

2x outstabled at Llantrisant,                                                                                                  

1x outstabled at Barry

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PENSNETT Coke Hoppers.

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The BR 20 ton 'Coke Hoppers' modified and reserved for the  'Pensnett' traffic from Llantrisant - Kingswinford were all from Lot 3122 on Dia. 1/152.

The wagons had modified discharge chutes.

Only one of the 'Pensnett' hoppers, B449190, was modified in 1971 by fitting vacuum brakes; no furrther examples were so fitted.

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Brian R

Edited August 31, 2022 by br2975

[BR traction instructor]

Diagram 1/152 included a good number of piped only coke hoppers…this helps flesh out a likely consist for the train.

 

BeRTIe

[br2975]

8 hours ago, BR traction instructor said:

…beware potential red herring but it would at least part solve our puzzle if fitted hoppers formed a fitted head at one end or both…photographer unknown just now, pic forwarded to me years ago.

 

37083 ex works allows date to be checked.

 

BeRTIe

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By the late 1970s the 20 ton coke hoppers were suffering severe body rot, caused by the acidic nature of their load.

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Coke traffic from, and within, South Wales was supplemented by 24 ton hoppers drafted in.

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The 24 ton hoppers were common on export coke workings from Nantgarw to Barry Docks.

[BR traction instructor]

The likely solution for the early 1970s 6V55 coke empties puzzle concerns this later instruction on the number of piped only wagons allowed to be marshalled together in a fully fitted consist first appearing in the 1975 Working Manual but being absent from the 1969 version. Thus, providing that the loco e.g. a Peak had sufficient brakeforce (with a brake tender if necessary, to run class 6) and there was a piped or fitted brakevan at the rear, then a long rake of piped only coke hoppers could run class 6.

 

Consulting a D notice for late 1971 does however reveal that parts of the network (Southern in this case) were already imposing restrictions on the marshalling of piped only wagons pre the 1975 WM instructions. The then Rule Book in force was still the 1961 updated little black book. The updated Rule 153 referred to is shown below…

 

BeRTIe

Edited September 1, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[D860 VICTORIOUS]

Hi all,

Excellent Peak info Brian,intriguing why a service would run from Bargoed Pit all the way to Middlesbrough,maybe a requirement for a particular type of coal...? And the Peak from 6V23 didn't get much chance for a rest,good utilisation there.Regarding your list of further Peak workings from 1970 onward,here's a couple of bits to throw into the mix : the September 1971 Railway Magazine has a short but interesting article entitled "Summer Saturday on the Lickey",with notes from June 1971 and a few pictures.One of these is of a Peak on a freight which the author identifies as the 07.30 STJ-Washwood Heath,headcode 8M63,not quite the same timings as you quote.Also, the aforementioned" Tribute to the Hymeks" lists one example on 8V85,the 09.33 Tees Yard-STJ,noted as working forward from Gloucester,which appears in your list.That freight must have taken all day...

The PFA workings were intensive,would have been a spectacular sight/sound climbing out of Wales.

OT a bit,but we did a few Saturday "Merrymakers" to Cardiff and Barry I. in the early 70's,and it was impossible to write down everything stabled at STJ,37's aplenty...

Thanks also to BerTIe for the further info,all of this is excellent.

Neil.

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, BR traction instructor said:

I suspect piped only coke hoppers interspersed with fitted coal hoppers, or else a rake of fitted coal hoppers allocated to this diagram. We need some pictures of the trains to make better sense of it though.

 

Otherwise, the class 6 path was simply used to show the importance & urgency of getting a partially fitted or unfitted working back more quickly for reloading.

 

BeRTIe

However the train was definitely timed at Class speeds so there was a planned assumption that it would convey sufficient fitted vehicles to run at that speed.  If there was insufficient Brake Force then obviously the classification , and speed, would be reduced (and the train would run late).

 

A pertinent question would be to ask what it was actually conveying and only the Loads Book (or some photos) is going to give us that answer.

 

11 minutes ago, D860 VICTORIOUS said:

Hi all,

Excellent Peak info Brian,intriguing why a service would run from Bargoed Pit all the way to Middlesbrough,maybe a requirement for a particular type of coal...?

(snipped)

 

Neil.

In 1973 we were sending regular trainloads of coal from Radyr to the north east and I understand that it was coal for steelworks coking.  I suspect that it was most likely required for v blending in order to get the right characteristics in the coke.

 

Nantgarw coking plant drew coal from the pit at Nantgarw but we also ran several trips of coal from elsewhere into there every day as it was needed for blending to get the right type of coke.   There was an awful lot of coal which moved about within South Wales, often over fairly short distances either for washing or for blending (or for blending after washing).

 

What that also meant was that at Radyr we made quite a lot of empty mineral wagons (16 tonners mainly) which we distributed to pits that we served rather than sending them to East Usk.

[BR traction instructor]

I don’t have a WR Freight Train Loads book but this LM one from 1968 gives a little more to consider for 6V55 and Kingswinford was an LM location at this time.

 

20% of the consist must be fully fitted/braked…a brake tender counts four wagons and a fitted 20-25 ton brake van two…24 piped only empty coke hoppers could then be worked class 6 in this consist. Thankyou to Richard Oldfield for pointing out this consideration.

 

Note 45mph was the maximum speed of a class 6 freight in 1968. By 1970/71 the guard would use his depot loads book to compare the train weight/combined brake force of the brake tender, loco and brakevan with the route classification (A,B,C or D) in his depot loads book for the journey back to Llantrisant, in order to determine the maximum speed of the train.

 

BeRTIe

Edited September 1, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, D860 VICTORIOUS said:

The PFA workings were intensive,would have been a spectacular sight/sound climbing out of Wales.

 

They were, as were the later Waterston-Albion tanks, 16 100tonners with double headed 37s.  I worked these trains, and the noise going up the banks, particulary Stormy and Llanvihangel, with the loadeds was full on awesome!

 

As a further comment on class 6 working, possibly not a particularly helpful one in sorting out the 6V55 conundrum, is that the rear 4 axles had to be fitted and the brake tested and confirmed as working as part of the guard's train preparation.  The driver blew the brakes off and you removed the vacuum bag from the dummy on the rear wagon, there was a sucking noise, and then you kicked the brake blocks to ensure that they were tightly up against the wheel rim, then replaced the bag on the dummy, then kicked the blocks again to make sure they'd released.  So piped only coke hoppers would have had to rely on the loco and at least 2 fitted at the rear for sufficient brake force.  My memory of 6V55, which as I say I never actually worked, was that it had a brake van and worked as a part-fitted train whatever the headcode said.  A class 6 timing would have allowed it to be timed to run at the 50mph the hoppers were rated for.

 

There were class 6 workings with brake vans, mostly on workings where some propelling movements were required, and the vans were piped with vacuum or air valves ('setters') to be operated by guards or travelling shunters.  TTBOMK this does not explain the Pensnetts, and the hoppers did not IIRC have lamp brackets fitted, necessary.  I have no recollection of fitted coke hoppers, and finding a place to put the cylinders would have been a problem, but it is half a century ago now, so that is not a comment to be relied on as established fact!

Edited September 1, 2022 by The Johnster

[br2975]

All this Hymek worship has forced the real 'workhorse of the valleys' into the shade, namely the EE Type 3 ( or as it was known post decimalisation, the Class 37 ).

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Radyr was the centre of my railway universe, being within Sunday morning walking distance.

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Fifteen or so EE Type 3s, and half a dozen 350hp shunters was usual weekend fare by the trun of the 70s, the last 'nine-fivers' having departed in April 1969.

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The Cardiff Valleys had some thirty duties, identified as C70 - C99, with C70-C75 being Aberdare based EE Type 3 jobs, and the remainder working off Radyr.

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The working was intensive.

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The 1971-1972 WTT shows 290+ paths through Radyr every 24 hours, including freight, trip, passenger, MGR and parcels workings.

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The 'six-eighters' were worthy successors to the GWR 56xx tanks, and any South Wales layout should have several.

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Extracts from some of the 1970-1971 Radyr diagrams are shown below.

It should be borne in mind that some sections of a diagram may be 'dropped' or altered due to traffic demands, and one locomotive could work more than one diagram.

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It will be apparent that some workings reversed

eg

Black Lion ( NCB Merthyr Vale ) - Cwmbach (for the Abercwmboi Phurnacite Plant) trains reversed at Stormstown, or Pontypridd.

Gyfeillon Upper ( NCB Ty Mawr ) - Nantgarw  (coke ovens) workings would reverse in Radyr Yard

Radyr - Ynysybwl ( NCB Lady Windsor ) would reverse at Stormstown also.

All now but a distant memory.

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I'm sure The Stationmaster could  put some meat on the bones. ?

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Brian R

Edited September 1, 2022 by br2975