What is the latest year we would be able to see black Class 08s?

[Lacathedrale]

As per title - “Early and Green Diesels” book has photographs of newly out shopped locos but doesn’t seem to cover repaints. I’m not talking about  one off pets, but rather when it may have been uncommon but still possible to see a black shunter.

 

thank you!

[Mark Forrest]

08 105 reported as being painted black to blue in 1975.

A couple of others thought to have remained in black until '73.

(Source: Un-Corporate Identity 1966-1982 supplement published with BRM/Traction many years ago)

[t-b-g]

25 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

As per title - “Early and Green Diesels” book has photographs of newly out shopped locos but doesn’t seem to cover repaints. I’m not talking about  one off pets, but rather when it may have been uncommon but still possible to see a black shunter.

 

thank you!

 

I am not sure that a black 08 is a good choice for the station pilot on the new layout........

[Lacathedrale]

Unrelated to any layout plans I’m afraid!

[turbos]

6 minutes ago, Mark Forrest said:

08 105 reported as being painted black to blue in 1975.

A couple of others thought to have remained in black until '73.

(Source: Un-Corporate Identity 1966-1982 supplement published with BRM/Traction many years ago)

08 105 appeared in a black & white photo in the 1975 Ian Allan Combined Volume still in black livery with the ‘cycling lion’ emblem with its TOPS number.

 

Brian.

[Halvarras]

D3052 at Willesden survived until December 1973 in black - had it lasted a few months longer it would have become 08039. This was the subject of a special edition by Model Rail magazine, based on the Bachmann model.

As Mark says, Carlisle Kingmoor's D3170 did last long enough to be renumbered 08105 - despite its remarkable survival the only photo I know of appeared in the 1975 Ian Allan CV and suggests that the old number was painted out with green or blue paint. I'm really surprised that no colour photographs of this oddity appear to exist to be able to confirm this.

Then there are the two Class 01s on the Holyhead breakwater line, and maybe one or two Class 11s - unsure about those......

 

Oh, and pre-TOPS both of these had steam-era large numbers with small D prefixes.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Halvarras
Spelling 'error' (I typed it correctly, but......)

[Lacathedrale]

So to be clear, we could feasibly have seen a black 08 from any time from introduction through to around 1970 at which point it would become increasingly anachronistic (and filthy)?

 

@Halvarras , from 1xxxx in 1948 through to Dxxxx in 1957 (and presumably the start of the repaints for those which recieved them). Was the 'D' patched over the '1' ? 

[keefer]

Photo of D3052 on 02/06/72 here: https://www.heritageshunterstrust.com/class-08

And at Willesden on 25/06/1974

25Jun74. Willesden mpd. Class 08 shunter D3052. [Slide_0623] by MrDeltic, on Flickr

[keefer]

Photo of D3170 at Carlisle in early 1973 (although caption says it's green):

Class 08 D3170 Carlisle 1973 by Neil McWilliam, on Flickr

[Richard_A]

Does anyone know of a South Wales based one still in black in the late 1960s? 

[br2975]

5 hours ago, rka said:

Does anyone know of a South Wales based one still in black in the late 1960s? 

.

Sorry, none that I'm aware of.

.

Swindon continued to paint WR Cl.08s in green, well after BR introduced blue, apparently in order to use up existing stocks of green paint.

.

Southern Region shunters going through Swindon at the same time were out-shopped in standard blue

[Wickham Green too]

16 minutes ago, br2975 said:

Swindon continued to paint WR Cl.08s in green, well after BR introduced blue, apparently in order to use up existing stocks of green paint.

Probably fitted copper-capped chimneys, too ....... but you wouldn't see them from ground level. 🤭 

[Richard_A]

2 hours ago, br2975 said:

.

Sorry, none that I'm aware of.

.

Swindon continued to paint WR Cl.08s in green, well after BR introduced blue, apparently in order to use up existing stocks of green paint.

.

Southern Region shunters going through Swindon at the same time were out-shopped in standard blue

Thank you, I thought you'd be the man to know. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by rka

[bécasse]

8 hours ago, keefer said:

Photo of D3170 at Carlisle in early 1973 (although caption says it's green):

Class 08 D3170 Carlisle 1973 by Neil McWilliam, on Flickr

That is an interesting photo. The loco was built at Derby in late summer 1955 and would have been painted black with a black wooden cab door and frameless cab window (as seen here), and a 13170 painted number. In this photo, the loco is painted green and has a varnished cab door, but still has the 1949 British Railways badge, which strongly suggests that it was overhauled at Darlington in the autumn of 1956 as that rare combination matches the batch of locos being built there at the time. It is possible, of course, that the (Darlington) varnished cab door was acquired in a swap with another loco but probably unlikely as the inward opening doors weren't prone to damage and, anyway, the loco was always allocated to one of the Carlisle sheds where Darlington-built 08s (with the varnished door) would have been unusual visitors. The revised painted number of D 3170 would have been applied at the shed (recorded as June 1957) and is in an unusual style with the full height D in the Gill Sans font, only possible since there was a 1 in the number (which is why the small D or condensed font for the whole number were used for new builds). I hadn't noted this renumbering style before and it wasn't used by any of the works for overhauled locos. The electrification flashes seen would have been affixed at the shed probably during mid- to late-summer 1960, wasps stripes would have awaited the next works overhaul and their lack would have been unusual by 1973 indicating that the loco hadn't been overhauled since the autumn of 1956. The loco had probably spent a lot of time out of use stored. It acquired its TOPS number of 08 105 in May 1974 (still in that same base livery?) and wasn't withdrawn until summer 1983.

[Lacathedrale]

Ah, so black locos could have gotten wasp stripes without a repaint to green? I didn't realise the yellow ends were so early at 1956!

[Nearholmer]

There’s an entire thread on here somewhere that traces the development of experimental and local-initiative white and yellow ‘visibility patches’ on shunting locos, which wasn’t by any means a one stage process, and the introduction of wasp stripes. IIRC the latter were standard on newly built locos from 1960, but you’d better check the other thread to be sure.

 

I think this is the thread, if you wade through it 

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Nearholmer