Bodmin & Wadebridge China Clay Traffic

[2996 Victor]

Dear All,

 

Can anyone advise how China Clay was transported from the Wenford Bridge clay dries in pre-War days?

 

Did the Southern Railway (and LSWR before it) have specialist wagons like the GWR? I can find no reference in Bixley et al. Or was the clay carried in casks or just sacks in standard open wagons?

 

Thanks for any help or advice with references.

 

Cheers,

Mark

[BR traction instructor]

…I’ve seen casks used. This book has several useful pre war images…

 

BeRTIe

Edited September 25, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[KeithMacdonald]

 

Is there anything here that helps?

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/ticket-to-ride---wenford-branch.html

 

Admittedly not directly relevant, but I've seen a couple of pics somewhere on RMWeb of old freight at Fowey Station that included china clay in big barrels.

 

[2996 Victor]

52 minutes ago, BR traction instructor said:

…I’ve seen casks used. This book has several useful pre war images…

 

BeRTIe

Thanks, BeRTIe, that's great to know. I've got a copy in my Ebay watch list, so that'll be a purchase come payday!

 

Cheers,

Mark

[2996 Victor]

35 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Is there anything here that helps?

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/ticket-to-ride---wenford-branch.html

 

Admittedly not directly relevant, but I've seen a couple of pics somewhere on RMWeb of old freight at Fowey Station that included china clay in big barrels.

 

Thanks Keith! The link is great, fab photos although later than I'm looking at. Great atmosphere and details, though.

 

Interesting about Fowey, that's the sort of info I need. The GWR carried "ordinary" clay loose in its special wagons; as I understand it, the casked clay was top quality that couldn't be stained during carriage. I'm wondering what the LSWR/SR did for carrying the ordinary clay, or was Wenford clay top notch only?

 

Cheers,

Mark

[BR traction instructor]

This book contains a picture of the original style of dedicated china clay wagon built 1914/15. 25 of these carried china clay in containers between Wenfordbridge and Wadebridge/Padstow for transhipment into coastal vessels (until around 1922).

 

A detailed account of china clay traffic carried from Wenfordbridge to both northern and southern Cornish ports is contained within this Irwell Press volume…

 

BeRTIe

Edited September 26, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[2996 Victor]

3 hours ago, BR traction instructor said:

This book contains a picture of the original style of dedicated china clay wagon built 1914/15. 25 of these carried china clay in containers between Wenfordbridge and Wadebridge/Padstow for transhipment into coastal vessels (until around 1922).

 

A detailed account of china clay traffic carried from Wenfordbridge to both northern and southern Cornish ports is contained within this Irwell Press volume…

 

BeRTIe

Thanks again, BeRTIe, that's brilliant!

 

I'm most embarrassed - I've got the Southern Wagons books, but I obviously missed the entry on clay wagons when I looked through it 🤦‍♂️ I need to look again. Properly!

 

I'll search out the Irwell book as well: that sounds very interesting.

 

Thanks again! 😃

 

Mark 

Edited September 26, 2022 by 2996 Victor

[2996 Victor]

6 hours ago, BR traction instructor said:

This book contains a picture of the original style of dedicated china clay wagon built 1914/15. 25 of these carried china clay in containers between Wenfordbridge and Wadebridge/Padstow for transhipment into coastal vessels (until around 1922)

Sorry to be a dunce, but I'm blowed if I can find it! 🤦‍♂️ Could you possibly point me toward a Plate number, please?

 

Thanks,

Mark

[BR traction instructor]

…Plate 110 on P64.

 

BeRTIe

[2996 Victor]

7 minutes ago, BR traction instructor said:

…Plate 110 on P64.

 

BeRTIe

Thanks, that's great. I would never have found it tucked away at the end of the Brake Van chapter!

 

It's a fascinating looking wagon. The containers look like they're pressed steel, and presumably the ends are hinged doors for unloading the clay.

 

Thanks again, BeRTIe - that's brilliant.

 

Cheers,

Mark

[BR traction instructor]

…I would anticipate a lift & tilt to empty arrangement by the hoist on the quayside. The snug fit within the wagon appears sufficient to keep the container doors closed.

 

BeRTIe

[KeithMacdonald]

For the original question about the Southern Railway, would a few places on the North Devon and Cornwall Junction Light Railway be of interest?

 

Quote

The North Devon and Cornwall Junction Light Railway was a railway built to serve numerous ball clay pits that lay in the space between the London and South Western Railway's Torrington branch, an extension of the North Devon Railway group, and Halwill, an important rural junction on the North Cornwall Railway and its Okehampton to Bude Line.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Devon_and_Cornwall_Junction_Light_Railway

 

• Marland Works
• Meeth Works
• Wooladon Clay Pits

 

 

 

[2996 Victor]

7 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

For the original question about the Southern Railway, would a few places on the North Devon and Cornwall Junction Light Railway be of interest?

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Devon_and_Cornwall_Junction_Light_Railway

 

• Marland Works
• Meeth Works
• Wooladon Clay Pits

 

 

 

Brilliant, thanks - I'd forgotten about Meeth and the ball clay works.

 

I read an excellent book on the subject more years ago than I care to remember. It was a library copy, can't remember the title, but I thought then it would make a great layout!

 

Cheers,

Mark

[KeithMacdonald]

Somewhere between Instow and Bideford -  but are these wagons the wrong era?

 

Quote

Tom Derrington - 25155 FOR MEETH - 25155 heads a china clay train between Instow and Bideford in North Devon in the early 1980's

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

Nice article here, with map, I'mjust quoting a small part.
 

Quote

 

Although it must have seemed to many that the Bodmin &Wadebridge line was an immutable part of the landscape, the cold winds of the Beeching plan were to blow through the Cornish valleys and leave little unchanged. Dieselisation and other economies of operation failed to do more than gain a few years reprieve, and in January 1967 the last train ran from Wadebridge to Bodmin. A little freight traffic used the yard at Wadebridge until 1978, when the station, which had given employment to 134 men at its peak, closed for good. Much to the joy of all railway enthusiasts, the Wenford branch survived, and continued to provide a thrice-weekly load of clay from the dries at Penpont, routed via the old GWR station at Bodmin General and Bodmin Road to Fowey docks.

...

No. 08 945 waits at Wenford for the return load of clay. ln recent years it was normal practice for the ”08” to work the clay to Boscarne Junction and leave the train there to be picked up later by a ”37” for the trip to Fowey Docks.

 

 

https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/1760/september-1984-bodmin-and-wadebridge-150/

[MarcD]

One thing that I think has been missed it the use of PO Clay wagons. from about 1908 North Cornwall China Clay Co. Had their own 3plk open wagons after 1919 NCCC became part of ECC and the wagons would have been repainted with ECC at some point. 

Marc

[Halvarras]

On 26/09/2022 at 22:11, KeithMacdonald said:

Somewhere between Instow and Bideford -  but are these wagons the wrong era?

 

 

 

 

Loco sporting '0O00' and Laira depot losing its Class 25 allocation points to a date between January 1976 and September 1980. 25155 had received 'domino' headcode panels by July 1979 which narrows it down further. Definitely 1970s then......

 

These wagons remained in service until early 1988.

 

Stunning photo by the way! Unlike most of the Class 25s Laira received, 25155 was one of the longest-serving examples (as were 25223/5). Almost made me want to rush out and buy the Heljan model. Almost.......!!😜

[Ramblin Rich]

On 26/09/2022 at 22:11, KeithMacdonald said:

Somewhere between Instow and Bideford -  but are these wagons the wrong era?

 

 

 

That's a great find, showing the 10ft wheelbase open 'empties' which would get flat tarpaulin sheets when loaded, with 9ft wheelbase 'clayhoods' at the rear.

The 'clayhoods' were built as end tippler wagons (similar to GWR types) to be used on runs to Fowey and didn't get the 'hoods' until 1973, so this configuration is definitely not right for pre-war times.

Still nice to see from my point of view, as I've only seen 1 other pic online with 'hoods' heading to/from Meeth.