WIMorrison Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 I have a Z21 and a 10806 booster, with the Z21 configured to switch Track Voltage Off when the Stop key is pressed on my Multimaus. I noticed today that when I press the Stop key and Stop is displayed on the Multimaus with the blue lights flashing on the 10806 and the Z21 that the track power on the 10806 is switched off but the output on the Z21 remains on. I don't think that the operation of the Z21 is correct, or certainly not how I expect it to operate. Is this situation what other people see? Is there a way to have the outputs from both the Z21 and the 10806 switched off at the same time? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 I will try mine later today, see what happens and let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 I have just disconnected Z21, am testing with Z21 only and find the behaviour is the same. Irrespective of how I set the Z21 (using either the app or main program) the track remains live though with emergency stop the loco stop instantly, and with Track Voltage off it is a more graceful stop - but the track remains live, though no DCC signals are sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted November 12, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) In the Z21 Maintenance Tool, general settings 3.2.1, you can configure what happens when you press the stop key. I have mine set to power off. Seems to work OK for me. "Centre stop key: This option is used to set the function of the STOP key on the control centre. Either the track voltage can be switched off, or with the power supply maintained, an emergency stop command can be sent to the locomotives." Edited November 12, 2022 by RFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 Robert, As I said 😀 13 hours ago, WIMorrison said: I have a Z21 and a 10806 booster, with the Z21 configured to switch Track Voltage Off when the Stop key is pressed on my Multimaus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted November 12, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) Indeed I read your first post too quickly. 😀 But I have tested on my layout and the power is dropped. I actually use a Lenz LH101 handset to power off. I can hear the Tortoise motors power off and lighted coaches go out. My main Z21 controls only accessories, and the dual 10807 booster the two track districts. Edited November 12, 2022 by RFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 Interesting, I also use the Z21 for accessories only and this is how I identified that it is not switching off the output because I was able to operate turnouts when I did not expect to operate them. I have now narrowed the fault down to the firmware on wired Multimaus and Main Program because when I issue the Stop command from a wireless Maus, or from iTrain, or the new App, then all outputs switch off correctly. Rerunning the test using the wired Maus or Main Program causes the behaviour I describe.. In summary, this is what I am finding, Main Program - fault Wired Maus - fault Wireless Maus - no fault Z21 App (new) - no fault iTrain - no fault 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveArkley Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 2 hours ago, WIMorrison said: Interesting, I also use the Z21 for accessories only and this is how I identified that it is not switching off the output because I was able to operate turnouts when I did not expect to operate them. I have now narrowed the fault down to the firmware on wired Multimaus and Main Program because when I issue the Stop command from a wireless Maus, or from iTrain, or the new App, then all outputs switch off correctly. Rerunning the test using the wired Maus or Main Program causes the behaviour I describe.. In summary, this is what I am finding, Main Program - fault Wired Maus - fault Wireless Maus - no fault Z21 App (new) - no fault iTrain - no fault Sorry, whats' Main program' refer to Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 Maint Program 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveArkley Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) Do you have software to capture and inspect the UDP packets being sent, sounds like the wireless maus is sending a different command than the maintenance program? Are Itrain and Maint program running on same PC, and hence using same network connection? Edited November 12, 2022 by DaveArkley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 I don't anymore 😪. I see this as Roco's issue to resolve rather than mine. The fact that a Wireless Maus operates correctly, yet their Maint program doesn't, suggests it is fairly fundamental, especially given that iTrain running on the same computer using the same network does operate correctly. I have emailed them and will need to await their responses 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 I magnificently failed to read your original post correctly! I only have a WMaus and not a wired Maus so cannot comment. However, just to say that my WMaus behaves exactly like yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 This issue would appear to be a fault in the wired and physical side of the Z21 because the networked connections from control devices seem to work correctly. This is the summary table that I have sent in the email to Roco, reflecting that the Z21-Stop-key in the Z21 Maintenance program is showing Track Voltage Off. If anything happens, I will let people know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveArkley Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 1 hour ago, WIMorrison said: This issue would appear to be a fault in the wired and physical side of the Z21 because the networked connections from control devices seem to work correctly. This is the summary table that I have sent in the email to Roco, reflecting that the Z21-Stop-key in the Z21 Maintenance program is showing Track Voltage Off. If anything happens, I will let people know. Out of interest what firmware is in your Z21 and Wifi Maus? I don't have a wired Maus, is the firmware upgradeable on that too? Cheers Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 All Roco Z21 elements are upgradable, and you need to upgrade if you have special symbols in the Wi-Fi password 😉 Z21 = 1.42 Wi-Fi Maus = 1.09 Wired Maus = 2.00, X-Bus v4.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveArkley Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 2 hours ago, WIMorrison said: This issue would appear to be a fault in the wired and physical side of the Z21 because the networked connections from control devices seem to work correctly. The Z21 FAQ confirms this : see Q1.8: 1.8. Why in the Z21 settings is there another setting option on the stop button when these have already been called up in the app settings? The setting option in the Z21 settings goes to the control centre via the stop button, whereas the app settings relate to the Stop button within the app. This means that the stop response can be set separately in both operating options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 Sorry, you have the better of me at the moment. Why, when I have defined the Z21-Stop-key function within the Maintenance program be any different when it is called from the Wi-Fi Maus or Wired Maus, let alone behave differently when used from the other ways to Stop the system? Stop should operate the same from all interactions, irrespective of where it is called from. Also, when I define the Stop choice within the app, that choice is reflected instantly back to the Maintenance Program, providing that consistency. It is the behaviour of the stop key, depending on where it is pressed that is the root of this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 (edited) An answer from Roco that explains the issue - and that needs to be a warning for others. Each device in the Z21 system (Maus, WLAN Maus, App, Maint Program) can set their own method of operation. This means that you could have a WLAN Maus set to Emergency Stop leaving track power on, and another WLAN Maus that switches off the track power. You could have it that App instance A issues stops, but leaves the track on and App instance B switches the track off, or any combination of apps and Mäuse. The summary is that you need to make sure that all your devices are set to the same mode of operation, and at club meets ensure that everyone sets their apps and/or Mäuse to the same setting, otherwise there could be an unexpected issue when you think track is off, but is on and vice versa. Edited November 22, 2022 by WIMorrison spelling 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesed Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Thanks Iain, that's useful information. Have you worked out if the setting is device specific or layout specific. If the latter then would that setting export/import with the layout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted November 22, 2022 Author Share Posted November 22, 2022 Good question to which I don't have an answer because I only use a wired and/or wireless Maus 🙁 I rarely use the app, most just to resolve issue for people. I suspect though that given a Maus doesn't have any concept of a layout, that this will be device specific. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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