Paris Austerlitz to Cahors.

[JeffP]

Watched an interesting YouTube video yesterday featuring s cab ride of the above journey. It was almost six hours in total😮

Anyway...comments and questions for anyone interested.

First stop: Issoudun, pop 12k.

Yet it sailed through both Orleans and Vierzon. Why would that be?

125 mph running to Orleans, plenty of 100 mph and to Vierzon snd Limoges.

Yet south of Limoges most of it was at 65/70 mph.

So how come SNCF haven't looked at Pendolinos for their twisty lines?

Or is nearly six hours to Paris acceptable for Cahors, Montauban etc?

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, JeffP said:

Watched an interesting YouTube video yesterday featuring s cab ride of the above journey. It was almost six hours in total😮

Anyway...comments and questions for anyone interested.

First stop: Issoudun, pop 12k.

Yet it sailed through both Orleans and Vierzon. Why would that be?

125 mph running to Orleans, plenty of 100 mph and to Vierzon snd Limoges.

Yet south of Limoges most of it was at 65/70 mph.

So how come SNCF haven't looked at Pendolinos for their twisty lines?

Or is nearly six hours to Paris acceptable for Cahors, Montauban etc?

There was a scheme to use tilting TGVs on this route, which rejoiced in the name 'POLT' (Paris- Orléans-Limoges- Toulouse); I believe it was abandoned when it was decided that Toulouse would be served via Bordeaux.

[Pacific231G]

9 hours ago, JeffP said:

Watched an interesting YouTube video yesterday featuring s cab ride of the above journey. It was almost six hours in total😮

Anyway...comments and questions for anyone interested.

First stop: Issoudun, pop 12k.

Yet it sailed through both Orleans and Vierzon. Why would that be?

125 mph running to Orleans, plenty of 100 mph and to Vierzon snd Limoges.

Yet south of Limoges most of it was at 65/70 mph.

So how come SNCF haven't looked at Pendolinos for their twisty lines?

Or is nearly six hours to Paris acceptable for Cahors, Montauban etc?

Orleans possibly because the main station is a spur off the main line. 

Interestingly, SNCF did research pendulaires in the 1950s and even built a prototype vehicle which was very extensively trialled. In the end they seem to have decided that twisty lines like Limoges-Cahors were too small a part of their network to justify going down that route and in any case opted to build new high-speed lines with curves of >4000m for their TGVs. As Fat Controller says, there were plans for a "pendulaire TGV" though the one I'm aware of was going to be prototype TGV 002 back in the days when they were going to be gas turbine powered. I don't know of a later project but it's entirely possible.   The line to Cahors used to be the main Paris-Toulouse line but SNCF now prefers passengers for Toulouse to get there on a TGV via Bordeaux. 

For those who are members of the French Railways Society there will be an interesting article about SNCF's voiture pendulaire in our December Journal.  

Edited November 17, 2022 by Pacific231G

[Gordonwis]

14 hours ago, JeffP said:

Watched an interesting YouTube video yesterday featuring s cab ride of the above journey. It was almost six hours in total😮

Anyway...comments and questions for anyone interested.

First stop: Issoudun, pop 12k.

Yet it sailed through both Orleans and Vierzon. Why would that be?

125 mph running to Orleans, plenty of 100 mph and to Vierzon snd Limoges.

Yet south of Limoges most of it was at 65/70 mph.

So how come SNCF haven't looked at Pendolinos for their twisty lines?

Or is nearly six hours to Paris acceptable for Cahors, Montauban etc?

 

 

The weirdness and Victorian archaic nature of French railway timetabling has been legendary since immemorial.

 

Nevertheless, as a stalwart of French railway travel for 60 years I can see some logic. First stop Issoudun is probably - ironically - to make the journey to points south quicker. Orleans and Vierzon are served by plenty of trains on different routes

 

Once the French had decided on the LGV route to Bordeaux the Toulouse via Limoges route became a challenge. The decision was made to serve Toulouse by TGV going via the LGV Atlantique an then cutting across (that's how Montauban is served). Journey times Paris to Limoges and Brive are considered just about within the acceptable limit. Cahors is the main loser.

 

There were several years of extensive testing of tilting technology on the route but everything has been dropped as too costly.

[Gordonwis]

12 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

There was a scheme to use tilting TGVs on this route, which rejoiced in the name 'POLT' (Paris- Orléans-Limoges- Toulouse); I believe it was abandoned when it was decided that Toulouse would be served via Bordeaux.

 

 

Not really. TGVs were already running to Toulouse via Bordeaux while the POLT tilting project was still on the table (POLT still is in theory in existence but 'put back to 2025' I read somewhere.

[Gordonwis]

5 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Orleans possibly because the main station is a spur off the main line. 

Interestingly, SNCF did research pendulaires in the 1950s and even built a prototype vehicle which was very extensively trialled. In the end they seem to have decided that twisty lines like Limoges-Cahors were too small a part of their network to justify going down that route and in any case opted to build new high-speed lines with curves of >4000m for their TGVs. As Fat Controller says, there were plans for a "pendulaire TGV" though the one I'm aware of was going to be prototype TGV 002 back in the days when they were going to be gas turbine powered. I don't know of a later project but it's entirely possible.   The line to Cahors used to be the main Paris-Toulouse line but SNCF now prefers passengers for Toulouse to get there on a TGV via Bordeaux. 

For those who are members of the French Railways Society there will be an interesting article about SNCF's voiture pendulaire in our December Journal.  

 

 

Pedantic I know but I think we can take it as read that for the purposes of this thread the OP's mention of Orleans was referring to Les Aubrais-Orleans.

 

David I was somewhat surprised that you don't recall Axis, the RTG fitted with tilting equipment. Axis was a follow up to the testing in 1997 of an FS ETR460 Pendolino on the route

 

https://www.railpictures.net/showimage.php?id=730188&key=9475282

 

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ilportaledeitreni.it%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2FF-TRAIN-GARE-DE-LIMOGES-BENEDICTINS-ETR-460-PENDOLING-RAME-B-28-VIA-ARGENTON-SUR-CREUSE-FEV-1997-F.-gibiatRAIL-USSELLOIS_001.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=f8f6b11cde477b6dd8ab5d56ef791ee31eeaf1051d8d6e0a318eebab0fdc2b19&ipo=images

 

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_(turbotrain)

Edited November 18, 2022 by Gordonwis

[JeffP]

Now I did see that in the late 90's, but it was at Lyon Perrache, not Limoges.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I had a weekend in Paris last year travelling there and back on this line.

 

Issoudun does seem like an odd place as first stop on the return journey but stops at Les Aubrais and Vierzon might lead to some overcrowding. Perhaps they should stop there but to pick up only.

 

Can't remember which year, but I did do Paris-Toulouse once on the Capitole. Comfortable, but a long day.

[Pacific231G]

18 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

 

 

Not really. TGVs were already running to Toulouse via Bordeaux while the POLT tilting project was still on the table (POLT still is in theory in existence but 'put back to 2025' I read somewhere.

Would SNCF now be prepared to build a new single deck TGV having gone over to duplex? I'm fairly certain that a tilting train wouldn't work with an upper deck. The carriage profile would have to be smaller to stay within the kinetic envelope so likely too small but, more to the point, the upper deck  passengers would be subject to uncomfortable lateral g forces. 

 

Back in the the late 1970s I travelled from Austerlitz to Cahors en route to a gîte in the Lot valley. It was a hot day and my main memory of that run was travelling in a train including Bruhats with their  centre doors wide open and passengers nonchalantly sitting on the steps at about 160 km/h.