Mechanical Engineers Power Supply Section - SR Info

[Ben04uk]

Does anyone know any details about the Mechanical Engineers Power Supply Section? I believe they had their main depot at Horsham and specialised in the provision of infrastructure and maintenance of the Southern Region third rail power supply network - did they have any other depots elsewhere? Would they have been likely to have been seen on the East Coastway line? They appears to have inherited a number of ex-revenue wagons (there are some photos on Flickr) - does anyone know exactly what type of wagons did they used and had in their fleet - would it have included brake vans, opens, and vent (store) vans?

Edited November 19, 2022 by Ben04uk

[Oldddudders]

I have a feeling there was a depot at Angerstein Wharf, but I may be wrong.

 

I can think of two RMwebbers who might have first-hand knowledge - Nearholmer and Lyddrail. 

[bécasse]

A depot at Angerstein Wharf would certainly have made sense with the electrical control room at Lewisham. There was undoubtedly considerable engineers' traffic on Mr Angerstein's railway, probably the main reason it was electrified in the late 1950s.

[Nearholmer]

I was a member of the BR(S) CM&EE PS team through the 1980s, and spent a large chunk of the late 70s with the team as a trainee.

 

We very definitely had a good sized depot at Horsham, but although some of our wagons were sometimes stored empty or loaded at Angerstein Wharf, and possibly on odd occasions things might have been loaded to them there, or scrap material off-loaded, I don’t recall there being a depot there.

 

The department had quite a span though, so there may have been an ETE Depot (electric track equipment, so dc cables, hook switches etc) there.

 

Most of the maintenance functions were centred on the control rooms, then there were area ETE depots, the only one of which I remember well being Haywards Heath, plus a central HV cables depot at Norwood Junction, and the depot at Horsham which was primarily for deliveries and scrap recovery in connection with “new works” and was the centre for all of the department’s rail operations, although not all of our trains actually went there. HQ was at Southern House, Croydon where there was also a tiny operational coordination centre, and we had a Test Section at based at Lewisham, organisationally distinct from the area teams based there, which undertook high current and high voltage testing, development and testing of control and protection equipment etc.

 

I could probably bore with further detail if requested!

 

PS: it’s just struck me that “the heavy gang”, who did all of our crane work may have been based at AW before moving to Horsham, because their origins were in a “traffic” department that did heavy lifting across the region, and I know they were based in SE London, because the bulk of their work had been around the docks and it was good recruiting ground for slingers, crane drivers etc. The gang worked for various engineering departments at weekends, and when heavy lifting for “traffic” dried-up some of them and their cranes were transferred into PS.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

In terms of wagons and train operating out of Horsham, the vast majority of the operations were for “new works”, which meant renewals and electrification projects, barely anything for maintenance.

 

The most common types of trains were:

 

- concrete troughing deliveries to site, using tube wagons. These would come loaded from places like Taunton and go to site either via Horsham or via one of the many “outstabling” sidings that were then available to all engineering departments;

 

- cable trains, using the various cable wagons, carrying HV oil-filled cable and pilot (control) cable, often with fitted heads and tails of empty wagons and including the Atlas crane, crane mess coach, and a wagon loaded with oil-pressure tanks to be offloaded;

 

- delivery or recovery of heavy plant such as transformers (very heavy!), rectifiers, and switchgear. These used a variety of tube and lowmac wagons, and I think we may have had a weltrol, or borrowed one, usually the “red baron” 75T crane, and often the atlas crane too, plus mess coach;

 

- scrap cable and timber recovery, when we were scrapping out 1930s HV cabling and routes, using tube wagons.

 

The guys who did all the trough unloading, cable pulling, and scrap loading were contractors’ casual labour recruited by the contractors’ gangermen “on the day” (in Kilburn mostly) and would come to site by road and meet the train at a convenient station, where we would get any lighting ready (Tilley lamps), and the lads would then travel from there to site in an open wagon. We did eventually get “crew vans”, converted SR 4W utility/brake vans, but not until late in the Hastings electrification IIRC.

 

Some trains, although fully braked, did have a brake van, but I think they were borrowed from “traffic”, and to the best of my recollection they were only used if the train was to be worked by an 09, or was to stopped on the main without a loco for a period, to give somewhere for the guard, although I only once saw a guard use the van. Brake vans were a PITA, because we had to find coal for them, which was always a troublesome.

 

Area of operation was the whole SR, and on one memorable occasion a bit of the WR too, because the southern power supply in that area is fed by cables from Reading Power station, along the GWR main line cess, which we renewed.

 

I think the guys who model Tonbridge West Yard have modelled some PS rakes authentically, but I’ve never seen anyone else even try.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Lyddrail]

Nearholmer gives much information of the Power Supply workings. I worked in maintenance but saw the Hastings-Tonbridge electrification and Networker & Eurostar upgrades to substations etc. The department only worked on the Southern region (other regions had Electrification departments), in my time the depot was Horsham, but they would use local sidings and yards on projects. Paddock Wood yard was a depot for many years for the work in Kent.

They had a fleet of older vacuum and piped wagons, but got extra air brake wagons in the 1990s. They did have brake vans including bogie SR brakes in earlier times. They had opens Tubes, Pipes and Steel opens, and BR vent vans for stores including ex shoc version (but the vans likely ended in 1980s).

Here are some pics of trains.

Cheers.

[Nearholmer]

Interesting photos, because apart from the first they show wagons more “modern” than I recall. 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Nearholmer

[hmrspaul]

 

The first photo appears to have a rake of the Parrot wagons converted to cable carriers https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/overheadmaintenance/e2183150f   https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/overheadmaintenance/e3f47b8f4

 

Paul

 

 

 

[SED Freightman]

I do not recall any M&EE activity at Angerstein Wharf in the early 80s, although wagons and materials may have been stored in the CCE's Angerstein Works. There was also an area of wasteland between the works and the Deptford line which was used to store material from time to time.  Evidence of the M&EE activity at Keylands Sdgs at Paddock Wood, mentioned by Lyddrail, remained for years in the form of many abandoned cable drums which were only cleared away in more recent times.

[bécasse]

I have to admit that I was thinking of a rather earlier period in respect of AW as my mention of the branch's electrification in 1959 would have suggested. Concrete troughing would have originated from Exmouth Junction at that time and I have a vague memory of having seen a rare daytime train on the branch loaded with troughing and hauled by an E5000 with the pan up.

 

Given the Kent electrification schemes of 1958-61, it would certainly have made sense to have a depot with easy access to both routes and at that very period I was travelling up and down the adjacent Westcombe Hill fairly often, visiting grandpa in East Greenwich. It seems a long while ago now and I am now older than he was then, and he had fought in the Boer War, been a horse tram driver when Edward VII was on the throne and an ARP warden in WWII.

[Lyddrail]

18 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

 

The first photo appears to have a rake of the Parrot wagons converted to cable carriers https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/overheadmaintenance/e2183150f   https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/overheadmaintenance/e3f47b8f4

 

Paul

Paul,

Yes, you are correct, the Lowmacs are for brakeforce and a SR staff van. A photo of ADB976025 YYPat Paddock Wood on 25-9-90. Cheers.

[45655]

21 hours ago, Lyddrail said:

Nearholmer gives much information of the Power Supply workings. I worked in maintenance but saw the Hastings-Tonbridge electrification and Networker & Eurostar upgrades to substations etc. The department only worked on the Southern region (other regions had Electrification departments), in my time the depot was Horsham, but they would use local sidings and yards on projects. Paddock Wood yard was a depot for many years for the work in Kent.

They had a fleet of older vacuum and piped wagons, but got extra air brake wagons in the 1990s. They did have brake vans including bogie SR brakes in earlier times. They had opens Tubes, Pipes and Steel opens, and BR vent vans for stores including ex shoc version (but the vans likely ended in 1980s).

Here are some pics of trains.

Cheers.

 

 

Interesting to see the Atlas crane in its former life.  This was acquired by the Mid-Hants S&T dept and is now based at Medstead & Four Marks.  It is now green!  A very useful piece of kit.

 

Keith

Alton.

21 hours ago, Lyddrail said: