Thorpe Park 2' gauge railway

[papagolfjuliet]

I note that the rolling stock from this long-defunct line - three Wild West outline Severn Lamb 4-4-0DHs, an Alan Keef 4wDM, and a number of attractive toastrack coaches - have been removed from Thorpe Park and despite rumours that they were to be scrapped, have been sold for further use with the 4-4-0s going to a site in Scotland and the shunter destined for overhaul and resale.  Does anybody know any further details? Thanks in advance.

[009 micro modeller]

On 19/11/2022 at 09:47, papagolfjuliet said:

I note that the rolling stock from this long-defunct line - three Wild West outline Severn Lamb 4-4-0DHs, an Alan Keef 4wDM, and a number of attractive toastrack coaches - have been removed from Thorpe Park and despite rumours that they were to be scrapped, have been sold for further use with the 4-4-0s going to a site in Scotland and the shunter destined for overhaul and resale.  Does anybody know any further details? Thanks in advance.

Didn’t some of the coaches go to the Lynton & Barnstaple some time ago, some for Lynbarn at The Milky Way and some for the main operation at Woody Bay? Although I might be getting confused as there was some other stock from an earlier line at Thorpe Park, which was the same 2ft gauge but a completely different design and on a different part of the site.

[009 micro modeller]

Some links:

 

L&B use of the carriages: https://www.lynton-rail.org.uk/page/thorpe-park-carriages

Earlier railway: http://www.memoriesofthorpepark.co.uk/treasureisland.html

 

Later railway: 

More info, suggesting that Canada Creek and Treasure Island were there at the same time at one point: http://www.memoriesofthorpepark.co.uk/ccr.html

 

Edit: Actually this link does seem to confirm that it’s the Treasure Island (not Canada Creek) railway whose coaches and track went to Lynbarn, along with (apparently) one of the locos - though it says this was loaned from Keef, so I wonder if a similar loan/lease arrangement pertained during its time at Thorpe Park? I’m not sure how many locos were used on each of the Thorpe Park lines.

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by 009 micro modeller

[009 micro modeller]

On 19/11/2022 at 09:47, papagolfjuliet said:

have been sold for further use with the 4-4-0s going to a site in Scotland

Actually thinking about it, is the Scottish site Clyde Valley/Valley International Park? This was 2ft gauge and used to operate with some regauged 15 inch gauge coaches (are they ex-Garden Festival ones? They look rather like those) and a Chance ‘CP Huntington’ loco - see here. I was under the impression it had closed but it seems now to have reopened with a new name, new owners and new stock for the railway. I’ve never visited however so would be good to hear from someone who has more ‘on the ground’ information. There aren’t any other 2ft gauge miniature-style lines that immediately spring to mind, unless it’s a new line being built currently.

 

On 19/11/2022 at 09:47, papagolfjuliet said:

three Wild West outline Severn Lamb 4-4-0DHs, an Alan Keef 4wDM, and a number of attractive toastrack coaches

The 4-4-0s and coaches sound like Canada Creek stock, and I think these are a standard Severn Lamb design - they’ve also produced smaller versions for 15 inch gauge. But is the Alan Keef loco left over from the earlier Treasure Island line and retained for some reason? It sounds more like the locos that were used for that.

[papagolfjuliet]

Yes, the Alan Keef shunter is from the Treasure Island line and I think was retained for departmental duties; everything else is from the Canada Creek line. The only other public 2' line in Scotland I can think of is the Leadhills & Wanlockhead, which seems an unlikely destination.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, papagolfjuliet said:

Yes, the Alan Keef shunter is from the Treasure Island line and I think was retained for departmental duties; everything else is from the Canada Creek line. The only other public 2' line in Scotland I can think of is the Leadhills & Wanlockhead, which seems an unlikely destination.

Was there actually a need for a specific departmental loco? Theme park railways tend to be treated purely as rides so I find that a bit surprising.

 

 I checked - the old Clyde Valley coaches were ex-Garden Festival: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/mrw_forums/liverpool-39-s-legacy-t1657.html

 

The UKPRSL register doesn’t list them as being at Clyde Valley any more, it only lists the new coaches, Chance loco (possibly with slightly incorrect wheel arrangement listed) and a German-built steam outline battery loco (probably the one shown in the website photo), as well as a random wagon (not sure if this is for permanent way or static display, but either way not hugely relevant in this case). It doesn’t get routinely and uniformly updated as its based on individual sightings so if the Thorpe Park locos have gone there they probably won’t show up on the register for a little while (for Clyde Valley you go here and search Clyde Valley as location). On the other hand, it looks as though Clyde Valley now has a regular loco (the new battery one), with the old Chance loco retained as a spare, so possibly they don’t actually need any more locos and the Severn Lamb locos are going elsewhere, possibly to a new line, or a theme park type line we haven’t thought of (I agree, Leadhills seems incredibly unlikely).

 

There is another Scottish 2ft line, Alford Valley, which is currently being revived after a few years of closure and in the past has had a bit of a mix of miniature/park railway and ‘proper’ narrow gauge stock. But I’m not sure that’s right either.

 

Edit: Could it be East Links? Although the American outline of the Severn Lambs would seem less appropriate, they seem to only have one modern (Keef) loco currently, built in the 1990s - the other is one of the old Baguley steam outline locos, built 1938 and rebuilt 1993 as a hydraulic.

Edited November 21, 2022 by 009 micro modeller

[papagolfjuliet]

Update: the shunter has gone back to Alan Keefe for overhaul prior to moving to the Hayling Light Railway, and one of the 4-4-0DHs plus a rake of the toastracks is indeed going to East Links Family Park, whose owner arranged the recovery of all the stock.

Edited November 27, 2022 by papagolfjuliet

[decauville1126]

The basic underframe and body framework of one of the ex-Treasure Island coaches is at Amberley Chalk Pits Museum. It was acquired from the Lynton & Barnstaple with a view to making an enclosed coach but this has not been, nor is likely to be, done.

[009 micro modeller]

7 hours ago, papagolfjuliet said:

Update: the shunter has gone back to Alan Keefe for overhaul prior to moving to the Hayling Light Railway, and one of the 4-4-0DHs plus a rake of the toastracks is indeed going to East Links Family Park, whose owner arranged the recovery of all the stock.

East Links was a lucky guess - American outline doesn’t really fit with their current stock but on the other hand the presence of the Baguley there does imply an interest in collecting old stuff from other similar lines. East Hayling seems a sensible home for the Keef loco. Do you know what’s happening to the other Canada Creek locos?

[papagolfjuliet]

On 27/11/2022 at 14:16, 009 micro modeller said:

Do you know what’s happening to the other Canada Creek locos?

 

All I know so far is that they too were recovered by the owner of East Links and that homes have been found for them.

[009 micro modeller]

44 minutes ago, papagolfjuliet said:

 

All I know so far is that they too were recovered by the owner of East Links and that homes have been found for them.

How many of the 4-4-0s were there originally? I’d be surprised if they had extra to cover potential failures as this is something that often isn’t provided on commercial lines of this type, although I don’t know how many trains they would have needed to operate a full service at busy times.

[Din]

On 20/11/2022 at 18:35, 009 micro modeller said:

Didn’t some of the coaches go to the Lynton & Barnstaple some time ago, some for Lynbarn at The Milky Way and some for the main operation at Woody Bay? Although I might be getting confused as there was some other stock from an earlier line at Thorpe Park, which was the same 2ft gauge but a completely different design and on a different part of the site.

 

Said set operated at the L&B for a few years before coming to the Statfold Barn Railway, where they are known as the "Lynton Set".

[papagolfjuliet]

33 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

How many of the 4-4-0s were there originally? I’d be surprised if they had extra to cover potential failures as this is something that often isn’t provided on commercial lines of this type, although I don’t know how many trains they would have needed to operate a full service at busy times.

 

Three, each with its own rake. The ex-Treasure Island line Alan Keef shunter, whose steam outline bodywork had been replaced with an ordinary cab and bonnet, was presumably also available to cover for failures. 

[009 micro modeller]

26 minutes ago, Din said:

 

Said set operated at the L&B for a few years before coming to the Statfold Barn Railway, where they are known as the "Lynton Set".

Yes, although as mentioned these were from Treasure Island not Canada Creek.

 

25 minutes ago, papagolfjuliet said:

Three, each with its own rake. The ex-Treasure Island line Alan Keef shunter, whose steam outline bodywork had been replaced with an ordinary cab and bonnet, was presumably also available to cover for failures. 

Did they ever use all three at the same time?

[papagolfjuliet]

The Treasure Island shunter has been donated to the Hayling Island Light Railway. https://haylinglightrailway.wixsite.com/ehlr/news

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, papagolfjuliet said:

The Treasure Island shunter has been donated to the Hayling Island Light Railway. https://haylinglightrailway.wixsite.com/ehlr/news

An appropriate home for it I think. I wonder if the rebuild will include reinstatement of the steam outline bodywork - it looks as though the cab is still in place anyway. Did it ever have a proper bonnet other than the steam outline one or is its current condition (in the photo on the Hayling social media - have they dropped the ‘East’ from the railway’s name?) the same as when it was used as a works loco?

Edited February 20, 2023 by 009 micro modeller

[papagolfjuliet]

News of the other former Thorpe Park line's stock: the four coaches which went to the Lynton and Barnstaple and thence to Statfold Barn have now been donated by the SBR to the Bala Lake Railway and were delivered to Llanuwychllyn last week: https://bala-lake-railway.co.uk/2023/11/24/blr-news-november-2023-edition/

[009 micro modeller]

5 minutes ago, papagolfjuliet said:

News of the other former Thorpe Park line's stock: the four coaches which went to the Lynton and Barnstaple and thence to Statfold Barn have now been donated by the SBR to the Bala Lake Railway and were delivered to Llanuwychllyn last week: https://bala-lake-railway.co.uk/2023/11/24/blr-news-november-2023-edition/

Yes, I saw that. Given the restrictions on width imposed by the BLR’s use of raised platforms when originally constructed (which has affected their new coach design) will this be OK for the ex-Thorpe Park stock? Not sure how wide it is compared to the old Bala coaches.

[papagolfjuliet]

3 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Yes, I saw that. Given the restrictions on width imposed by the BLR’s use of raised platforms when originally constructed (which has affected their new coach design) will this be OK for the ex-Thorpe Park stock? Not sure how wide it is compared to the old Bala coaches.

 

No idea, but I'll be popping down there later in the week for a look.

[009 micro modeller]

28 minutes ago, papagolfjuliet said:

 

No idea, but I'll be popping down there later in the week for a look.

I mean, of course they’ll fit obviously as they would have checked, I’m just wondering how much flexibility there is as I assumed from their new coach design that the proximity of the raised platforms to the track was an important restriction.