A bit of advice on building an 0 gauge garden railway.

[Cowley 47521]

Hello folks.

 

I’m hoping for a bit of advice on building an 0 gauge garden railway. I’ve never worked with the scale before and I’m finding it a little bit difficult to work out what I can fit in the space I have available.

 

The area I have is roughly 7 metres by 7 metres with a space adjacent to it that I’d easily be able to fit a 6’ x 4’ shed  for storage and potentially a small terminus (apologies for the mixing of measurement standards here).

 

The premise would be a small Scottish highland type of setup - so small 3 coach trains plus loco as a maximum length. I’d also like to raise the track height and landscape the area in the garden.

 

What I was wondering was:

 

1) What kind of length would I need for a loco to be able to run around three coaches in this scale?

2) Is it feasible to have working point motors outside in the garden?

3) Would anyone mind running their eye over the rough sketch I’ve made below (I sent that to a friend hence the way I’ve written the notes out!) and just give me an idea of whether I could realistically fit that into the space I’ve got without having ridiculously sharp curves?

 

 

Any advice/constructive criticism would be gratefully received!

 

 Thanks everyone 

 

Nick

[Miss Prism]

Good luck!

[Titan]

I can't help thinking that this set up would be ideal for SM32 (16mm/foot) narrow gauge. As the locos are self powered (by just about any power source/fuel you can imagine) no worries about track pick up. It can be as cheap or expensive as your budget allows, and as the locos and rolling stock are more weighty with perhaps coarser wheels they can cope better with the odd leaf.  Most locos will manage 2'6" radius curves which will help with the space too.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Titan

[Jeremy Cumberland]

I've put your sketch into AutoCAD and so that top to bottom on the paper is 7 metres,

 

The curve top left is about 2 metre radius, or almost 7 feet. That is fine.

 

Bottom right through the station is about 1.5 metre radius, which is about 5 feet. I'll let 0 gauge specialists comment, but that seems doable for the type of stock you are likely to be using, but you might need to pay close attention to the bottom points and the outer loop. This looks like being the critical part of your plan and you will probably need to draw it out to scale, just as you would do for an indoor layout. What points are you using?

 

The curve from the station to the shed looks to be not much more than 0.6 metre radius or 2 feet, This is far too tight. It is easy enough to increase the radius here, but perhaps not enough. This looks to me to be the only part of your plan that is impracticable as drawn.

 

Good luck!

[33C]

Triang BIG BIG stuff is standard and narrow gauge and relatively cheap. Hymeks and mk.2 coaches, Ruston diesel and side tippers, Steam loco's and mineral wagons and some trackside buildings. Track is the same for both with spring loaded points and a sort of trackside remote control. Use it to get a feel for the space and you can upgrade later. 

[Cowley 47521]

5 hours ago, Jeremy C said:

I've put your sketch into AutoCAD and so that top to bottom on the paper is 7 metres,

 

The curve top left is about 2 metre radius, or almost 7 feet. That is fine.

 

Bottom right through the station is about 1.5 metre radius, which is about 5 feet. I'll let 0 gauge specialists comment, but that seems doable for the type of stock you are likely to be using, but you might need to pay close attention to the bottom points and the outer loop. This looks like being the critical part of your plan and you will probably need to draw it out to scale, just as you would do for an indoor layout. What points are you using?

 

The curve from the station to the shed looks to be not much more than 0.6 metre radius or 2 feet, This is far too tight. It is easy enough to increase the radius here, but perhaps not enough. This looks to me to be the only part of your plan that is impracticable as drawn.

 

Good luck!

That’s extremely helpful thanks for doing that.
 

I was just going to go for standard 0 gauge bullhead Peco track because it seems the most available and simple option to me? The range is decent and a friend of mine has an 0 gauge project on the go and I believe he’s using that (I’ll have to check on that though).

 

As far the curve to the shed goes, yes I see what you mean about it being a bit sharp. When I was up in the garden yesterday evening having a further think about things I did realise that I could probably angle the shed differently to ease that a little. Mind you, I also came to the conclusion that with a mk1 being more or less 45 centimetres long, a 6’ x 4’ shed might be way too small!

 

5 hours ago, 33C said:

Triang BIG BIG stuff is standard and narrow gauge and relatively cheap. Hymeks and mk.2 coaches, Ruston diesel and side tippers, Steam loco's and mineral wagons and some trackside buildings. Track is the same for both with spring loaded points and a sort of trackside remote control. Use it to get a feel for the space and you can upgrade later. 

 

That’s not a bad idea actually @33C. I might have a look at some of that (and resurrect a bit of childhood nostalgia).

 

6 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Good luck!

 

 Thanks!

 

5 hours ago, Titan said:

I can't help thinking that this set up would be ideal for SM32 (16mm/foot) narrow gauge. As the locos are self powered (by just about any power source/fuel you can imagine) no worries about track pick up. It can be as cheap or expensive as your budget allows, and as the locos and rolling stock are more weighty with perhaps coarser wheels they can cope better with the odd leaf.  Most locos will manage 2'6" radius curves which will help with the space too.

It probably would be good for that, but I’m a bit set on the BR Scotrail era in my mind. It’s something I’ve always wanted to do and with the stuff that’s available from companies like Heljan now it feels like a good time to do it.

[Nearholmer]

If you are going to use Peco track for the permanent line, it (and most others) needs a good formation to maintain line and level. Even if you aren’t into 16mm/ft, it’s worth getting hold of their introductory handbook, because it gives a lot of good advice on that subject.

 

Speaking from experience, I would suggest that you more or less forget wood as a formation material if it is in contact with soil Whatever you do to preserve it, you are fighting a losing war against the forces of nature. If you save time and money by using wood, you will almost certainly spend more time and more money renewing it later. The inevitable can be staved off for so long, but not forever.

 

I’m fairly sure that the old Triang track is plastic that is barely UV-stable if left outside, so it deteriorates quite quickly. Only suitable for very temporary lines, I think.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Cowley 47521]

50 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

If you are going to use Peco track for the permanent line, it (and most others) needs a good formation to maintain line and level. Even if you aren’t into 16mm/ft, it’s worth getting hold of their introductory handbook, because it gives a lot of good advice on that subject.

 

Speaking from experience, I would suggest that you more or less forget wood as a formation material if it is in contact with soil Whatever you do to preserve it, you are fighting a losing war against the forces of nature. If you save time and money by using wood, you will almost certainly spend more time and more money renewing it later. The inevitable can be staved off for so long, but not forever.

 

I’m fairly sure that the old Triang track is plastic that is barely UV-stable if left outside, so it deteriorates quite quickly. Only suitable for very temporary lines, I think.

 

 

Yes I’ve decided to make it out of block work or something similar and with proper foundations. My neighbour (who’s also a bit of an enthusiast) has offered to help and he’s also got a mini digger and a concrete mixer that we can use for the groundworks.

 

Basically I’d like to properly landscape it once the route has been laid and I’m happy with it.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Cowley 47521

[Nearholmer]

Good move.

 

I eventually went for a combination and of blocks and engineering brick (for the very visible bits), on a proper foundation, and that is now a decade old and totally solid. It worked out expensive, but it’s a good-looking addition to the garden, forming a slightly raised planting area, and will last “forever”.

 

if anyone asks, I’ll always advise a small garden railway built very well, rather than one twice the size built less robustly, because the latter becomes a frustration after a bit.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Nearholmer

[Cowley 47521]

21 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Good move.

 

I eventually went for a combination and of blocks and engineering brick (for the very visible bits), on a proper foundation, and that is now a decade old and totally solid. It worked out expensive, but it’s a good-looking addition to the garden, forming a slightly raised planting area, and will last “forever”.

 

if anyone asks, I’ll always advise a small garden railway built very well, rather than one twice the size built less robustly, because the latter becomes a frustration after a bit.

I think that is very wise advice. 
 

I really like the idea of using engineering bricks actually. I might consider that for the run towards the shed.

 

My neighbour has a huge heap of earth at the bottom of his field and we have discussed using his shonky old dumper truck to bring some in and possibly cover the sides of the block work in places so that they look more like embankments.

Lots of ideas floating around in my head at the moment but I think the first thing to do is get the plans a bit sorted and maybe start stockpiling materials. Although I’m a painter and decorator by trade I work alongside a couple of different building teams so I’m able to get things at a decent price thankfully.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Cowley 47521

[sncf231e]

First: Running trains in the garden is fun!

 

Maybe you should consider using battery powered (remotely controlled) trains. This method is sometimes called "dead rail".  I run O gauge and 1 gauge in the garden with power via the rails and have no problem  with that, but I have a very simple oval layout at a good height (see pics), so it is easy to clean the track. Every time I run electrically powered trains  I have to clean the track (rail heads) with  a rail cleaning block or the trains will run very erratic. I also run clockwork and live steam trains and then the cleaning is not necce. Even then all kind of stuff have to be removed from the rails especially in Autumn. With a scenicked layout as you propose I think it would not be easy to keep the track clean.

 

Regards

Fred

 

[Nearholmer]

Yes, keeping ground-level track clean for track electrification is a PITA, and the electrical bonding in the first place needs to be perfect.

 

I gave up on track electrification in favour of battery r/c, steam and clockwork very quickly, although friend has persisted with track electrification very successfully - he’s a lot more patient and diligent than I am!

[Cowley 47521]

9 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Yes, keeping ground-level track clean for track electrification is a PITA, and the electrical bonding in the first place needs to be perfect.

 

I gave up on track electrification in favour of battery r/c, steam and clockwork very quickly, although friend has persisted with track electrification very successfully - he’s a lot more patient and diligent than I am!

Ok that’s interesting. Going on from what Fred said above and your experiences. I had in my mind the idea of a DCC sound fitted loco running smoothly around the track with sound effects echoing around the garden.

Do you think that’s complete madness then?

[Nearholmer]

No, but it is something that would necessitate a lot of hard work n installing the track, and  in keeping the track clean thereafter.

[sncf231e]

I do run some DCC sound locomotives but also all types of 2-rail/3-rail analogue AC and DC trains and found out that for DCC sound the track has to be cleaned very well and if the weather is a bit damp the sound sometimes is a bit erratic, depending also on the make of locomotives (some have a larger/better capacitor or power-buffer such that they are less prone to that).

This more recent Märklin locomotive runs well on DCC sound in the garden:

 

Regards

Fred

Edited November 26, 2022 by sncf231e

[Cowley 47521]

2 hours ago, sncf231e said:

I do run some DCC sound locomotives but also all types of 2-rail/3-rail analogue AC and DC trains and found out that for DCC sound the track has to be cleaned very well and if the wheather is a bit damp the sound sometimes is a bit erratic, depending also on the make of locomotives (some have a larger/better capacitor or power-buffer such that they are less prone to that).

This more recent Märklin locomotive runs well on DCC sound in the garden:

 

Regards

Fred

What a lovely thing that is. Thanks for advice.

[37114]

On 21/11/2022 at 19:08, Cowley 47521 said:

That’s extremely helpful thanks for doing that.
 

I was just going to go for standard 0 gauge bullhead Peco track because it seems the most available and simple option to me? The range is decent and a friend of mine has an 0 gauge project on the go and I believe he’s using that (I’ll have to check on that though).

 

As far the curve to the shed goes, yes I see what you mean about it being a bit sharp. When I was up in the garden yesterday evening having a further think about things I did realise that I could probably angle the shed differently to ease that a little. Mind you, I also came to the conclusion that with a mk1 being more or less 45 centimetres long, a 6’ x 4’ shed might be way too small!

 

 

That’s not a bad idea actually @33C. I might have a look at some of that (and resurrect a bit of childhood nostalgia).

 

 

 Thanks!

 

It probably would be good for that, but I’m a bit set on the BR Scotrail era in my mind. It’s something I’ve always wanted to do and with the stuff that’s available from companies like Heljan now it feels like a good time to do it.

Good luck with this, I would agree that a 6 x 4 shed is quite small for O gauge, you will basically get a loco and 3 carriages in it (Just) so you may want to look at a 10 x 8 or similar. 

[Cowley 47521]

30 minutes ago, 37114 said:

Good luck with this, I would agree that a 6 x 4 shed is quite small for O gauge, you will basically get a loco and 3 carriages in it (Just) so you may want to look at a 10 x 8 or similar. 

Thanks 37114. I’ve just found a load of paper so I’m going to cut some templates out and shuffle them around on the floor for a bit to get an idea of size…

[37114]

2 minutes ago, Cowley 47521 said:

Thanks 37114. I’ve just found a load of paper so I’m going to cut some templates out and shuffle them around on the floor for a bit to get an idea of size…

To give you a sense, this what you get train wise in 5ft

[DCB]

You need about 11 feet for your 3 coach plus loco terminus.  Our 00 BLT is 7ft X 18" and takes 4 X 60ft coaches and a small loco, a 4-6-0 wont fit so multiply by 7/4 and you have about 11 ft.

My garden line was /is 00, ruling grade is 1 in 14! and its battery powered.  It runs on walls and across paths and steps so has no real impact on use of the garden.   It starts at around 36" above ground and climbs to  a tunnel 12" below ground before popping out of its tunnel about 36 " above ground level but about 5 feet higher than it started.  Most of it has track laid on wet cement laid on stone walls, in channels cut into paths and steps and some on concrete laid in trenches along the edge of the lawn.  It was / is OK but too small, grass stems and slugs cause all to many derailments.  On the plus side battery power is so smnooth compared to jerky DCC and DC and track cleaning is limited to what is needed to stop derailments, cleaning the inside edge of the rail head.  Intention was/is to go for RTR R/C with soud etc but funds never became available but its great fun even if the success rate without derailments is one run in three.   0 gauge would have cured it but some of my curves are only 30"  Problem areas are where the concrete base is laid on the lawn as the ground heaves and cracks the concrete so I would caution against assuming the ground is a firm base.  Putting it on wood was a disaster. Ground level works well in not compromising the use of the garden but if yours is level unlike mine which has a variation around 10 feet from bottom to top then the station in the shed is a challenge.  However a train lift might do the trick.......

[Cowley 47521]

4 hours ago, DCB said:

You need about 11 feet for your 3 coach plus loco terminus.  Our 00 BLT is 7ft X 18" and takes 4 X 60ft coaches and a small loco, a 4-6-0 wont fit so multiply by 7/4 and you have about 11 ft.

My garden line was /is 00, ruling grade is 1 in 14! and its battery powered.  It runs on walls and across paths and steps so has no real impact on use of the garden.   It starts at around 36" above ground and climbs to  a tunnel 12" below ground before popping out of its tunnel about 36 " above ground level but about 5 feet higher than it started.  Most of it has track laid on wet cement laid on stone walls, in channels cut into paths and steps and some on concrete laid in trenches along the edge of the lawn.  It was / is OK but too small, grass stems and slugs cause all to many derailments.  On the plus side battery power is so smnooth compared to jerky DCC and DC and track cleaning is limited to what is needed to stop derailments, cleaning the inside edge of the rail head.  Intention was/is to go for RTR R/C with soud etc but funds never became available but its great fun even if the success rate without derailments is one run in three.   0 gauge would have cured it but some of my curves are only 30"  Problem areas are where the concrete base is laid on the lawn as the ground heaves and cracks the concrete so I would caution against assuming the ground is a firm base.  Putting it on wood was a disaster. Ground level works well in not compromising the use of the garden but if yours is level unlike mine which has a variation around 10 feet from bottom to top then the station in the shed is a challenge.  However a train lift might do the trick.......

That’s really interesting. I don’t suppose you’ve got any photos of the railway that you might be able to post?

 

I’m going to pop along to the local 0 gauge group meeting tonight (for the second time), my friend has recently become a member and I think I’ll probably join tonight as well because they’re a really nice bunch of people and ever so knowledgeable and helpful. There’s also a guy there that’s into his remote control stuff who I’d like to have a chat to. That’s definitely something worth looking into. 
 

 

[DCB]

On 01/12/2022 at 07:46, Cowley 47521 said:

That’s really interesting. I don’t suppose you’ve got any photos of the railway that you might be able to post?

 

An 00 gauge DC Hall posed on the 1 in 14 grade on a sunny day. The 37 half in a tunnel  The 156 is posed on Dec 3rd forming the 16.00 from Inamess half way in the tunnel, longer view of the same tunnel as the 37. crossing the steps, and on the 5ft radius curve leading to Goat of Barton.   Leaves are a huge problem this time of year.     I also found some video which I will put on YouTube when I get the time

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by DCB

[Cowley 47521]

3 hours ago, DCB said:

 

A DC Hall posed on the 1 in 14 grade on a sunny day.   One of my  battery locos a 37/4 with a B set,( all the blue grey stock is in the loft,) this afternoon, 4pm Dec 1st crossing the path on the level and then popping out of the tunnel.

I will edit with better photos when I get a chance to find some.

 

 

 

Thanks for doing that. It wasn’t the warmest of days!

The sunlight on the Hall looks great.

[Cowley 47521]

Hello again everyone.

 

Having taken onboard the advice given on here and also having subsequently had a complete rethink, I’m not somewhat nearer or more thought out plan.

 

The initial idea of where to build it was a little bit too compromised and also too complicated for what I actually wanted to achieve. So I’ve moved my attention to different area of the garden, one that isn’t really used very much and that’s at the top corner of the garden underneath the oak tree that’s on the boundary with our neighbours garden:

 

The current plan that I’m bit by bit firming up is to have a similar arrangement to the plan above, but once the groundwork is done I should have a circular area nearly 10 metres across as well as a decent sized terminus which will be in an extension on the side of the shed to the right in the photo below, which is 14 feet long:

 

My neighbour who has a digger and a dumper truck was over the other night and we’ve gone over the plans and pencilled in making a start towards the end of June. He’s got a huge heap of soil in his field that needs moving so we’re going to bring quite a lot of that into mine and dig the higher parts out (as well as a pond) to try get things a little lower and flatter for what needs to be done.

We’ll also dig out the footings once everything is compacted.

 

I’ve also been toying with the idea of making the raised track bed out of reclaimed bricks as I think I could probably get them for free. I was wondering if anyone else had used brick in this kind of scenario before?

 

Nick

[Nearholmer]

As I mentioned way back up thread, my current, small garden line is on a raised retaining wall around a planting area, and is made from a combination of concrete blocks (hidden areas) and engineering brick (visible areas). 
 

That had stood solid for over ten years now, the “secret” being proper foundations, as in a foot plus square in section concrete, on rammed broken stone. It’s a ridiculously sold construction for the purpose TBH, but it does look neat thanks to very good work by the bricklayer (not me), who followed the sinuous shape that I’d defined beautifully.

 

Reclaimed brick also looks nice, in a different way. I built a low retaining wall to create a level planting area, and an “island” to accommodate a terminus on my first garden line. All the brick fr those was obtains on dg walks, which sometimes meant carrying heavy lads back! The bricks were all old, some very, found in woods, hedgerows, and alongside a former railway line (that was the best source), and many of them had the names of long-defunct brickworks pressed into them. It was quite an interesting project.

 

Something good about engineering brick and concrete is that they don’t mind soil being against them, so on a flat site you can create embankments that won’t slump by building what amounts to a low wall, then piling soil on either side, which. Think looks very good.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Nearholmer