Do ballast spreaders actually work?

[ikcdab]

I have a lot of track to ballast.  It's all thin-sleepered marcway finescale in OO.

My current technique is to spread it around then brush it into place with a fine brush.  Takes ages and I seem to be placing each individual lump. But ends up looking good.

Was wondering whether a ballast spreader would ease the load.  Do they actually work and just deposit ballast between the sleepers and leave the tops clear.... How much finishing off is required? 

Wondering how much time and effort one would actually save.

Any experiences?

Ian

[cctransuk]

Being in a similar position, I will be interested to read responses.

 

CJI.

[russ p]

I found mine made the task of ballasting a lot quicker,  I still had to use brushes to get the end result 

[ikcdab]

Yes.  Ive watched numerous YouTube videos and they seem to leave the sleeper surface covered in ballast.

I did wonder about making my own.  The clearance between the "tongue" and the sleeper top needs to be less that the thickness of a piece of ballast so that stray piece on the sleeper tops get swept off.

The YouTube videos leave me sceptical which is why I asked the question.

Ian

[Uksid]

I was really pleased with the results I got using a spreader on my n gauge code 55.  
 

Like someone else said, you tend to get ballast left on top of the sleepers, but one Charlie (Chadwick Model Railway)’s videos has a great tip about tapping the rails with the bottom of a teaspoon after and all the ballast on the sleepers walks itself off and it looks great.

[AndrueC]

I found that mine helped as a first pass but I always ended up tidying the result to my satisfaction. So they are a good way to get the ballast down but they don't quite manage to produce the finished result.

 

But for my current layout I used foam underlay and now - despite the cost - I'm a convert. Only thing I'd say for that is to think about stations or yards because you have to raise the ground level several millimetres to compensate for the depth of the underlay on the main lines.

Edited December 18, 2022 by AndrueC

[cctransuk]

I'm coming to the conclusion that a self-build in plastic card, tailored to fit Peco Code 75, would be the best and most economic approach.

 

..... or, at least, if it doesn't work, I'll only have myself to blame!

 

CJI.

[Matt]

I have a ballast spreader but have given up using it TBH - I found that on C&L and Exactoscale track I have that it generally puts down too much ballast and requires a lot of brushing into place and removing excess (damp finger) to get a good result. I have found it quicker to scatter the ballast into place with a spoon then brush into position with a small paintbrush.

might work better with Peco code 100 but can’t say for sure.

Hth

[ikcdab]

15 minutes ago, Matt said:

I have a ballast spreader but have given up using it TBH - I found that on C&L and Exactoscale track I have that it generally puts down too much ballast and requires a lot of brushing into place and removing excess (damp finger) to get a good result. I have found it quicker to scatter the ballast into place with a spoon then brush into position with a small paintbrush.

might work better with Peco code 100 but can’t say for sure.

Hth

Yes that was my thought.  I use SMP Scaleway track which has the really thin sleepers ( I think 0.8mm) and I think a spreader will not be much use for the reasons you say.

Ian

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by ikcdab

[Robin Brasher]

A ballast spreader did not work for me on Peco 00 track.  I ended up shaking the ballast from a tea spoon and then soaking the ballast with a mixture of PVA and water using a dropper from the chemist.  It took ages but the end result was reasonable.

[GWR_NZ]

Hi,

Consider the Bexhill West ballast vacuum system

 

 

James has several videos on the system he developed , including a link to a shop where he sells the system.

 

Usual disclaimer applies,,,,

 

[Andymsa]

Ask the question get 50 different ways to ballast, I use two methods which work very well. The first has just been described in the post above, it works very well but does take practice. The second is a bit more unorthodox, I first spread the ballast out with one of the ballast spreader boxes then I take the motor part of a bullet  sex toy, but any thing like a variable speed electric tooth brush will do. I then switch on and hold lightly against the rail, the  ballast tamps down just like the real thing and the best bit 99% is off the sleepers.

[dasatcopthorne]

I've used a ballast spreader on Code 100, 83 and 75. Thin and thick sleepered.

 

The trick is practising. Hover it up with a popsock or the foot of tights to catch the dry ballast and return it for more practice.

Adjust the speed of movement to match the thickness of your sleepers.

 

Then tap the track to dislodge ballast from the top of sleeper as well as running a finger or thumb along the track to spread any excess.

Lastly, use a small square ended brush to poke some ballast under the rails if there is a gap in the track you use.

 

Wet the ballast thoroughly with 'wet' water (washing up liquid or IPA) and then use you mixture of choice. 50/50 water/PVA or water/matt acrylic varnish, both with a tough of washing up liquid or IPA.

 

There's nothing like a 6" test piece to get it right.

 

Good luck.

 

Dave

Edited December 19, 2022 by dasatcopthorne

[Pete the Elaner]

I find a hopper/spreader useful but not a complete solution.

They are unsuitable for with pointwork & don't have the right shape to cope properly with concrete sleeper track.

 

Would I recommend one? Yes.

For me, it is well worth £5-£10 for a tool to do the initial spreading, even if I do have to tidy it up with a brush before fixing it down.

[Phil Himsworth]

I made my own out of cardboard; it still required brushing to get rid of the excess between the rails but it was very helpful in getting the shoulder the right shape and consistent along a whole length of track on both sides, I don't think I had to touch that at all.

 

Making your own has the advantage that you can get the trailing edge to exactly match the track and the shape you want. I ended up making two, one for track on a cork bed and one without.

[Re6/6]

I swear by the 'ballast spreader' method as we had a vast amount of plain line to be ballasted for Balcombe. It takes a while to get it right so practice is required. Judging the speed of movement of the box delivering the ballast is key. Requiring the spreader for 18.83mm P4 it's an easy task to carefully widen the rail slots to fit.

 

Once down I then used a 'Dougal' ballast brush assembly for final neatening up. https://www.buffersmodelrailways.com/dougal-ballast-smoother-ooho

 

All in all I'm very pleased with the results using these pieces of equipment.

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Re6/6

[40034_Nick]

On 18/12/2022 at 15:18, russ p said:

I found mine made the task of ballasting a lot quicker,  I still had to use brushes to get the end result 

I totally agree.. I found it let too much ballast onto the track. i Actually ended up using a mini funnel to distribute the ballast in the end. And then brushing into place. 

Would i buy a Spreader again... NO !

[ikcdab]

1 hour ago, 40034_Nick said:

I totally agree.. I found it let too much ballast onto the track. i Actually ended up using a mini funnel to distribute the ballast in the end. And then brushing into place. 

Would i buy a Spreader again... NO !

Thank you for all of your comments.  I made a start yesterday and completed the attached in an hour or two.  I found that spreading using fingers and lots of tapping with a lump of brass (actually a dog from a GWR locking frame!) really settled it all down nicely ready for the PVA.  Now onto the next bit....

Ian.

Ps: just spotted the dog sitting on the concrete bridge in the pic!

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by ikcdab

[russ p]

1 hour ago, 40034_Nick said:

I totally agree.. I found it let too much ballast onto the track. i Actually ended up using a mini funnel to distribute the ballast in the end. And then brushing into place. 

Would i buy a Spreader again... NO !

 

I found it worked better if moved pretty quickly 

[Pete the Elaner]

35 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

Thank you for all of your comments.  I made a start yesterday and completed the attached in an hour or two.  I found that spreading using fingers and lots of tapping with a lump of brass (actually a dog from a GWR locking frame!) really settled it all down nicely ready for the PVA.  Now onto the next bit....

Ian.

Ps: just spotted the dog sitting on the concrete bridge in the pic!

 

 

You've questioned the 'tried & trusted' method of spreading ballast but not which adhesive to use.

PVA is a great product for its intended use of sticking wood together but you are not using it for this. Is it good to set ballast in a resin? In my view, no.

 

Clear acrylic varnish has been mentioned & a latex adhesive like Copydex is another alternative. I've not tried Ballast Magic but as a product marketed specifically to fix ballast, I expect it is good.

I have tried crushed wallpaper paste flakes because they just need wetting, but I don't recommend it because they shrink after drying leaving cracks in the six foot.

[makeitminiature]

Sorry if this reply is late to the party, but as my vacuum ballasting gadget has been referred to in the YouTube link posted above by GWR_NZ, I would like to offer you one to try out Ian.

If you send me an email or PM on here, I'll happily pop one in the post for you to try out.

 

My best wishes,

 

James

[ikcdab]

32 minutes ago, makeitminiature said:

Sorry if this reply is late to the party, but as my vacuum ballasting gadget has been referred to in the YouTube link posted above by GWR_NZ, I would like to offer you one to try out Ian.

If you send me an email or PM on here, I'll happily pop one in the post for you to try out.

 

My best wishes,

 

James

Hi James that's very kind.  I'll send you a pm.

Ian

[RobinofLoxley]

I am resigned to my ballasting taking a very long time. There will be a lot to do and I'm waiting until all track is laid and thoroughly tested. That could include a bit of strategic reinforcing of baseboards which can't be done if ballast is about. Ballast in all straight areas will be contained using this strips of wood as last time. 

 

But for me the main problem is stabilising it afterwards. Last time I used diluted PVA and wasn't very happy with the results. Even with plenty of detergent added I thought the result looked lumpy. Maybe I didn't dilute enough - there's a lot of variation in PVA quality and I had woodworking grade to start. So any thoughts on this?

[RobinofLoxley]

On 19/12/2022 at 09:20, Andymsa said:

Ask the question get 50 different ways to ballast, I use two methods which work very well. The first has just been described in the post above, it works very well but does take practice. The second is a bit more unorthodox, I first spread the ballast out with one of the ballast spreader boxes then I take the motor part of a bullet  sex toy, but any thing like a variable speed electric tooth brush will do. I then switch on and hold lightly against the rail, the  ballast tamps down just like the real thing and the best bit 99% is off the sleepers.

Good tip Andy. I'll just go delving in the missus toybox for the right item

[ISW]

 

On 18/12/2022 at 14:50, ikcdab said:

Any experiences?

Ian

Ian,

 

Yes. Here's link to a summary of the 'tools' I used. No, I didn't use a proprietary spreader as I found it caused more problems that it solved. I just used a cardboard 'profile' instead (I think a plastic one could have problems with static picking up the ballast?). The method worked very well, and I was completing 1-2m of 4-track in a single session.

Ian