The Green Papers - being the random jottings of Doncaster Green

[James Hilton]

On 19/07/2023 at 17:25, Doncaster Green said:

About 12 months ago I purchased James Hilton's book of small layout design.  There are a number of very workable schemes for those with very little space for a layout.  One in particular kept drawing me back - a very simple design inspired by Cromford Wharf on the Cromford and High Peak Railway.  It was accompanied by a photo of a J94 quietly simmering outside, what I suppose is, some sort of enginemens' bothy.  That photo, along with a long viewing the late Iain Rice's Hepton Wharf over the weekend, has convinced me that the idea is a starter given the space and resources I have.

It’s wonderful to hear how my book has begun to inspire and influence other modellers, and you’re the notnthe first person to be taken with Cromford Wharf. I think it has massive potential and look forward to seeing what you put together in 2mm!

[Doncaster Green]

I wouldn’t be holding my breath James.  Progress is likely to be very slow; in fact, glacial is possibly to overstate the rate at which things will move!   A J94 conversion is well on the way to becoming 68012, one of the last two on the line, and another Farish example is earmarked to become 68006.  But I have yet to build any wagons or the baseboards or the track or the etc. etc!  
 

John

[bécasse]

A couple of shots of Cromford Wharf taken in October 1982 (before I cycled over the whole route to Buxton). Apologies for the deterioration of the colour rendering in the scanned prints.

[Ian Morgan]

@bécasse I hope you don't mind, but I have applied a little digital magic:

 

 

[Doncaster Green]

Thank you @bécasse for those and thank you @Ian Morgan for the enhancement.  The more I look at Cromford Wharf the more I am convinced I want to model something inspired by it.

 

John

[Doncaster Green]

It is time, I think, for a bit of an update in the ongoing saga of the J94.  In a previous post I outlined where I was with the chassis (in all sorts of deep doo-doo) and the start of the body modifications.

 

The chassis is sorted (whisper it just in case), with smooth running in both directions.  Quite what I had done wrong I have no idea, but a bit of TLC seems to have done the trick.  The body has come a long way, those who have seen the Jerry Clifford's Bath Queens Square thread will have had a little preview, and is probably as far as I can sensibly take it.  Starting with:

 

 

we have progressed to:

 

 

 

A bit of tidying up is required (those buffer mountings could do with some attention - oh, how cruel a picture can be) and a representation of the injectors fitted, but, overall, I'm reasonably pleased with the outcome so far.  Once the titivating is done it will get a flash of primer as a final check of blemishes before a full, well worn, black paint job as 68012, the last BR J94 in service and one of the last two on the C&HP.  At the flash primer stage I will be checking the chassis/body interface for all the shorts that will undoubtedly be there. 

 

The intention is to do a second one as 68006, the other of the final C&HP pair, when/if the conversion chassis etch comes back into stock in Shop3.  There will be things I will do differently; as they say you learn by your mistakes.  With the pair I will then have little excuse not to build the layout to go with them.  That will mean I have got to build some wagons!  This is the fourth steam loco conversion I have done and I have a total of 17 coaches and NPCS at varying stages of completion but the only wagon I have built to date is the one in the introductory pack!

 

In other news, a Farish class 24 has been run in and rewheeled to go with its class 25 stablemate.  It awaits buffer beam furniture, couplings and a chip and will probably be completed long before the J94!  I also attempted to rewheel a Deltic (I don't need one but I grew up with them so nostalgia rules, ok!) but I have a problem.  When fitting the 7mm/16 tooth axles as suggested in the Shop 3 note for pre 2019 production (and mine is definitely pre 2019, the price ticket on the box is from a model shop that disappeared years before that) the bogie locks up solid, suggesting that the number of teeth are not a match.  I am tempted to get some  7.5mm/14 tooth axles and try them (I'm not overly worried about the extra 0.5mm - as I say its only nostalgia) but thought I would seek the advice of the knowledgeable first.

 

A Farish 4F is currently adorning the workbench while I work out out to treat the tender - the loco will be a doddle.  It looks to be an easier proposition than a Jinty as the whole footplate comes away as part of the body and you haven't got the footsteps to worry about.  This will be the first tender engine I've tackled; next up one with waggly bits of outside motion????

 

John

 

[queensquare]

3 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

It is time, I think, for a bit of an update in the ongoing saga of the J94.  In a previous post I outlined where I was with the chassis (in all sorts of deep doo-doo) and the start of the body modifications.

 

The chassis is sorted (whisper it just in case), with smooth running in both directions.  Quite what I had done wrong I have no idea, but a bit of TLC seems to have done the trick.  The body has come a long way, those who have seen the Jerry Clifford's Bath Queens Square thread will have had a little preview, and is probably as far as I can sensibly take it.  Starting with:

 

 

we have progressed to:

 

 

 

A bit of tidying up is required (those buffer mountings could do with some attention - oh, how cruel a picture can be) and a representation of the injectors fitted, but, overall, I'm reasonably pleased with the outcome so far.  Once the titivating is done it will get a flash of primer as a final check of blemishes before a full, well worn, black paint job as 68012, the last BR J94 in service and one of the last two on the C&HP.  At the flash primer stage I will be checking the chassis/body interface for all the shorts that will undoubtedly be there. 

 

The intention is to do a second one as 68006, the other of the final C&HP pair, when/if the conversion chassis etch comes back into stock in Shop3.  There will be things I will do differently; as they say you learn by your mistakes.  With the pair I will then have little excuse not to build the layout to go with them.  That will mean I have got to build some wagons!  This is the fourth steam loco conversion I have done and I have a total of 17 coaches and NPCS at varying stages of completion but the only wagon I have built to date is the one in the introductory pack!

 

In other news, a Farish class 24 has been run in and rewheeled to go with its class 25 stablemate.  It awaits buffer beam furniture, couplings and a chip and will probably be completed long before the J94!  I also attempted to rewheel a Deltic (I don't need one but I grew up with them so nostalgia rules, ok!) but I have a problem.  When fitting the 7mm/16 tooth axles as suggested in the Shop 3 note for pre 2019 production (and mine is definitely pre 2019, the price ticket on the box is from a model shop that disappeared years before that) the bogie locks up solid, suggesting that the number of teeth are not a match.  I am tempted to get some  7.5mm/14 tooth axles and try them (I'm not overly worried about the extra 0.5mm - as I say its only nostalgia) but thought I would seek the advice of the knowledgeable first.

 

A Farish 4F is currently adorning the workbench while I work out out to treat the tender - the loco will be a doddle.  It looks to be an easier proposition than a Jinty as the whole footplate comes away as part of the body and you haven't got the footsteps to worry about.  This will be the first tender engine I've tackled; next up one with waggly bits of outside motion????

 

John

 

Great stuff John, look forward to seeing progress next time we meet up. We’ve had all sorts in Bath but never a Deltic….. yet! 
 

Jerry

[Doncaster Green]

30 minutes ago, queensquare said:

Never a Deltic….yet!

I’m trying to imagine the damage the exhaust would do to Devonshire and Combe Down, if, indeed, they would go through!

 

John

Edited October 2, 2023 by Doncaster Green

[Doncaster Green]

13 hours ago, queensquare said:

We’ve had all sorts in Bath but never a Deltic….. yet! 
 

Jerry

Maybe not at Queen Square, but certainly over on the Dark Side.  I have a fond memory of watching the ‘Purple People Eater’, aka ‘Gordon Highlander’ in Porterbrook livery, crossing Pulteney Road bridge while I was waiting for North Parade lights to change.  Don’t ask me when - sometime in the late nineties?
 

John

[Richard Hall]

On 02/10/2023 at 17:05, Doncaster Green said:

A Farish 4F is currently adorning the workbench while I work out out to treat the tender - the loco will be a doddle.  It looks to be an easier proposition than a Jinty as the whole footplate comes away as part of the body and you haven't got the footsteps to worry about.  

 

 

Shop 3 has a tender chassis etch to suit the Fowler tender, part number 3-180. I found that yesterday while looking for something else.

[Doncaster Green]

12 hours ago, Richard Hall said:

 

Shop 3 has a tender chassis etch to suit the Fowler tender, part number 3-180. I found that yesterday while looking for something else.

Hi Richard

 

I have one of those.  My current dilemma is how much of the tender undergubbins I will need to remove to enable it to fit.  I have Nigel Hunt’s notes on finescaling a 2mt (possibly the first attempt at something with outside motion) plus the shop notes and the words of wisdom on one of Izzy’s threads and, hopefully, they wii guide me through.  The other dilemma is that I have two 4F’s, one with a Fowler tender and one with a Johnson version, and I’m not sure which to mess up first!

 

John

Edited October 4, 2023 by Doncaster Green
To add a bit

[Doncaster Green]

The J94 has moved on a little.  It has been given a quick blast of rattle can primer and is looking reasonable:

 

 

 

The unfilled hole I had missed has now been filled and some attention given to that unsightly gap along the top of the buffer beam.  As is usual, I forgot an important step - I did not mask off the spectacle glasses and now have the job of trying to clean the paint off them!  When that is achieved, another blast of primer just to check and then a coat of satin black, again from a can.

 

A start has been made on a 4F.  I decided to go with the Fowler tender for the reason shown below:

 

The tender handrails on the Johnson tender are a separate moulding glued onto the front of the footplate and I had visions of me either breaking them if I tried to remove them or, indeed, breaking them while preparing the tender chassis to take a new, finer scale one. For now, the loco has been put to one side while I reduce the tender to its component parts:

 

 

and make up a replacement chassis.  This is based on the Shop3 generic 13ft underframe, which means, as it is 1:152 as opposed to 1:148, the wheels and axleboxes don't quite line up, but unless you are looking at it from straight on from a distance of 10cms you can't tell, so I'll live with it!  I have also sacrificed the water scoop.  Leaving it in place meant I couldn't have enough frame spacers to keep the chassis square and removing it gave me a very convenient hole to take a 12BA nut and bolt to mount the chassis.  Anyway, at normal viewing distances I couldn't see it!

 

 

Believe it or not, I have a plan how this will all go together!

 

In other news, I have revisited the second Jinty I converted, the wheel and bearing change as opposed to the replacement chassis of the first one.  It was running like a three-legged camel with arthritis!  I have stripped it down again, reset all the quartering and made up a new set of rods (I think I had opened up the originals far too much thinking it was a rods issue rather than quartering).  It is still running like a three-legged camel, but I appear to have cured the arthritis!  I am thinking part of the problem may be the motor mounting.  To check the quartering I removed the motor and I am not 100% sure I've put it back properly.

 

All of this has very successfully distracted me from all thoughts of trackwork and layouts.  Perhaps I need to develop some focus!!!!!

 

John

 

 

 

[yaxxbarl]

Oh aye, that J94 is looking good - as it happens my converted EFE one is also going to be 68012! The 3d printed body to go on my chassis is due to get finished too.

 

As for the 4F tender I managed to use pinpoints a la Dapol Diesel conversions on the tender on mine - however I do have a generic 13+13 chassis kit or two in case I decide to go that way. Seeing how you've done the PCB though is probably how I'll do it on one such chassis to go under an old white metal BH Enterprises Fowler tender on the back of a Crab.

 

Cheers,

 

John

[Doncaster Green]

2 hours ago, yaxxbarl said:

my converted EFE one is also going to be 68012! 

Of the final two on the C&HP, 68012 is the easier one!  68006, the intended victim of my next conversion (if the chassis comes back into stock), has the added complication that, although the bunker extension had been removed, the ladder on the bunker rear was still in place.  The ladder is on the RT Models etch, but how to mount it?

 

John

[Doncaster Green]

 

It is now exactly a year since I started this topic after the Great RMWeb Melt Down lost all my pictures in the old topic and I discovered that I had also failed to save a lot of them!  A year ago I gave you a picture of 'Ole No 7',  Sir Nigel Gresley taken by me at Bath Spa.  This year, just to show no company bias, I give you Nunney Castle in the iconic view in Bath's Sydney Gardens that, I believe, is no longer possible following the aborted electrification works and the intervention of the 'elf and softy' squad.  As I understand it this view is only now available on the Park Keepers' lovely 4mm rendition of the same spot!

 

It has been a funny old year. I actually achieved more than I expected but nowhere near as much as I had hoped.  With the very limited time at my disposal, the emphasis has been on getting together some motive power to pull all the carriages that are, slowly, working their way through the paint shop. Some of this has already been detailed in previous posts:

                 the first Jinty conversion - an old cast body Farish with an Association replacement chassis.  This is now a very sweet little runner.

                 the second JInty conversion - this time a later model converted using replacement bearings, wheels and rods.  This was the three legged camel with arthritis of previous posts, but careful re-addressing of the quartering has led to a quite sweet runner.  The advantage of this later Farish chassis is the ease of fitting a decoder should I wish.

                  a Class 25 diesel, another Farish offering that has had drop in replacement wheels fitted and has been fitted with a decoder.  It has had a run out on Bath Queensquare and proved a nice, smooth, controllable beast.

 

In addition, a 4f conversion has just been completed:

 

 

I won't show you it with the tender body off due to the horrible wiring (I promise to do the next one more neatly - I have a Johnson tender version lined up to do).  Suffice to say it appears to run quite well but needs a bit of running in and a few detail bits added to the tender.

 

The other on-going project is the J94.  This is being procrastinated over at the moment.  I am not totally happy with cab front or with the join between the cab front and roof:

 

 

When I am happy with the cab, the transfers are to hand so the painting and lettering can be done.

 

I will lay out my hopes for the coming year in my next post.  Meanwhile, in the words of Noddy (Holder, not the one with the funny car and aurally challenged mate), MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!

 

John

 

[Doncaster Green]

As we are now six weeks into 2024, I think it is about time to lay out my hopes and aspirations, 2mmFS wise, for the rest of the year.  I think I have said before that I don't do resolutions as I can never keep them and we are now sufficiently far away from the bravado and alcohol fuelled atmosphere of New Year for any temptation to make any to have faded into the past!

 

Firstly, where are we with current projects that need completion?  

 

The second Jinty has had a chip fitted and, when given the chance of a run out over the Mendips, proved to be a very sweet little runner.  All that remains to do is fit some DGs without upsetting anything!  I have, thus far, managed to keep the chimney well away from any form of cutting or slicing implement.  I know the Farish effort is a little on the weedy side and I do have an NBrass replacement, what is lacking is the confidence to actually change it!

 

The 4f has also been chipped and, when given a similar opportunity, proved to be a little lacking in smoothness.  This has been addressed and, hopefully, has been improved.  Finishing touches are needed to the tender, coal rails, etc., from the goody bag, and, perhaps, a little lick of light weathering.

 

The J94 is almost there.  I am still procrastinating over the cab front/roof join, but a few strokes of a file should fix it!???!  Putting a chip in is not on the agenda at the moment.  I am happy to utilise existing wiring and sockets as per the Jinty and 4f, but it would have to be hard-wired for the J94.  I know this is simple and straight forward for a basic chip, but I have visions of £30+ worth of chip going up in smoke at the approach of my soldering iron!

 

Coach production has not progressed well.  Only three have reached the fully decorated stage and two of those lack interiors!  Another three have paint, although one still needs the ends finishing, and lack lettering and interiors.  The rest are all still in bare metal waiting for the paint shop.  These will be slowly moved along in between other jobs.

 

So, what of the coming year, well, 46 weeks?

 

Thanks to the usual, very efficient service from the Association shopkeepers, all the necessary bits are to hand for three more locos:

 

A second 4f, this one with a Johnson tender.  Having done one I know what to expect!

A Farish J39.  This will be a complete chassis and tender underframe replacement; a little out of my comfort zone in that it will be loco drive with the motor in the tender so I will have to think about drive shafts and universal joints.  It will also entail my first bit of outside motion - the lubricator drive on the right hand side.

A Farish 2MT using the Nigel Hunt etch.  This will be well outside my comfort zone, requiring not only a replacement pony truck but also a complete set of outside motion.

 

I will report progress on these as and when there is any!

 

Thoughts of a small layout based on the C&HPR have gone on the back burner for the time being as I have recently become the custodian of a part built layout.  All the track is in situ on two 4ft boards with a 3 road sector plate hanging off one end.  There are a couple of alterations I will make to the trackplan but most of it I will use as is - I feel it can be developed into a nice depiction of an impecunious light railway in the late 1950s/early 60s with connection to the grown-ups!  Whether that connection will be Midland Region or Eastern Region will depend on loco stock. At the moment it's looking like Midland!  I envisage an amalgam of various light and secondary railway protypes for the buildings; a station building based on Elvington on the Derwent Valley, the timber goods shed from Watlington, the ground frame hut from Watlington and so forth.  So far, I have spent some time understanding the electrics, sorting a couple of reluctant points and repairing some track damage and have successfully run locos the full length of all running lines.  Again, I will report progress.

 

With a layout at least now achievable, I will be needing wagons.  Something I have avoided until now.  The only workaday wagon I have built is the 16 tonner from the 2mm Association taster pack!  I have some wheels to convert Farish and Dapol wagons but I think it is about time I made the acquaintance of the Shop 2 Shopkeeper.

 

Quite a busy year in prospect!  As always the watchword will be progress towards completion rather than completion per se!  Excuse me while I go and warm up the soldering iron.

 

John

Edited February 9 by Doncaster Green

[Doncaster Green]

What I should have mentioned in the previous post was that the J39 is started!  Whilst sitting idly with one eye on the moving wallpaper, the loco in one hand and a screwdriver in the other, I have, inadvertently, ended up with a kit of parts for a J39!  I am not absolutely sure I could put it back together again, a bit like Humpty Dumpty!

 

John

 

[Caley Jim]

4 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

I know this is simple and straight forward for a basic chip, but I have visions of £30+ worth of chip going up in smoke at the approach of my soldering iron!

There should be no need to put the soldering iron anywhere near the chip, unless you are needing to replace a wire or are fitting stay-alive.  Even then, if it's a Zimo decoder the attachment points are plenty big enough to keep the iron away from delicate components.  One of the few occasions where I use a small, pointed bit.

 

Jim

[queensquare]

4 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

What I should have mentioned in the previous post was that the J39 is started!  Whilst sitting idly with one eye on the moving wallpaper, the loco in one hand and a screwdriver in the other, I have, inadvertently, ended up with a kit of parts for a J39!  I am not absolutely sure I could put it back together again, a bit like Humpty Dumpty!

 

John

 

We can fit a chip at our next get together John, as Jim said it’s a pretty painless operation. 
we can also look at UJs, I know Will is keen to look at these as well.

 

Jerry

[Doncaster Green]

Hi Jim and Jerry

 

The intention with the 4f, J39 and 2 MT is to make use of the pcb’s already there, which allow for a six pin, plug ‘n play chip.  I am confident any necessary soldering is within my capabilities, having already done it on the first 4f, the advantage being the chip is nowhere near an iron in a shaking hand!  The J94 is a different kettle of fish!  It will have to be a direct wired chip, and, given its very short wheelbase, would probably benefit from stay alive.  I have a fear that, while a wired chip will probably not be an issue with regard space, due to the way I have arranged the chassis mounting, fitting stay alive may be problematic!  Something we could look at next time Jerry?  In the meantime I will talk to John at Youchoos regarding a suitable set up.

 

The offer of a tutorial on UJs will be gratefully accepted Jerry.  Also, anyone any ideas on removing the worm from a big Farish can motor so it can be reused; it seems a shame to bin it.

 

John

[65179]

9 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

Hi Jim and Jerry

 

The intention with the 4f, J39 and 2 MT is to make use of the pcb’s already there, which allow for a six pin, plug ‘n play chip.  I am confident any necessary soldering is within my capabilities, having already done it on the first 4f, the advantage being the chip is nowhere near an iron in a shaking hand!  The J94 is a different kettle of fish!  It will have to be a direct wired chip, and, given its very short wheelbase, would probably benefit from stay alive.  I have a fear that, while a wired chip will probably not be an issue with regard space, due to the way I have arranged the chassis mounting, fitting stay alive may be problematic!  Something we could look at next time Jerry?  In the meantime I will talk to John at Youchoos regarding a suitable set up.

 

The offer of a tutorial on UJs will be gratefully accepted Jerry.  Also, anyone any ideas on removing the worm from a big Farish can motor so it can be reused; it seems a shame to bin it.

 

John

 

Bob/Izzy's buckjumper shows what's now possible in a small space.

 

Simon

[Doncaster Green]

5 hours ago, 65179 said:

 

Bob/Izzy's buckjumper shows what's now possible in a small space.

 

Simon

I’ve been following that, Simon, and never cease to be awed by what other people produce.  I’m also looking back in his thread to glean as much as I can on his J15; there may be things I can apply to the J39.

 

John

[65179]

3 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

I’ve been following that, Simon, and never cease to be awed by what other people produce.  I’m also looking back in his thread to glean as much as I can on his J15; there may be things I can apply to the J39.

 

John

 You've got rather more room in your J39!

 

Simon

[Doncaster Green]

44 minutes ago, 65179 said:

 You've got rather more room in your J39!

 

Simon

Agree.  Shouldn't be pushed for space in a Group Standard tender, although the intention is to cram in the biggest motor I can!

 

John

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, Doncaster Green said:

Agree.  Shouldn't be pushed for space in a Group Standard tender, although the intention is to cram in the biggest motor I can!

 

John

 

Hi John,

 

In recent times I have pretty much standardised on the 7x16 size coreless motors as a 'one-size-fits-all solution', having used them in everything from the little Hunslet 05 to the slightly bigger re-built Royal Scot with no power issues at all. These have been both the cheap ones off eBay from past times and those now in shop 3. They seem to cope with whatever is thrown at them, which using DCC just builds on, and the deciding factor on haulage is purely down to weight/mass. Use one of these along with a ratio of 30/40-1 and fill the body with lead and you should have no problems. *

 

Bob

 

* and it goes without saying a Zimo 

Edited February 10 by Izzy
spelling!!!