SALEIGNES ROMAZIERS, CFD metre gauge, Charente Maritime slow layout build.

[lofty.ian]

Hi Jamie, just picked up this thread, it will make a nice escape from the rigours of your big standard gauge Lancaster Green Ayre.

A change can be refreshing.

I am having a minor sidetrack from my EM Lancaster Morecambe Heysham layout - a 7mm narrow gauge plank layout using RTR oo gauge chassis

Ian

[Pacific231G]

4 hours ago, ianp said:

 

That B&W film from 1949 about the closure of the CFD is tremendous.

Just to be clear. The CFD (Chemins de Fer Departementaux) company itself didn't close and is still going strong. It was set up origionally in 1881 as concessionary  operating company (think First Group or Virgin) that won the concessions to run and often build a large number of  the secondary railway systems (mostly the metre gauge ones) then being built outside the major main line companies throughout France. There were several such companies in France, the other large one being the Société générale des chemins de fer économiques (known as the S.E.). The railways they ran tended to be known as the CFD name of département or region   or SE name of département  or region.  So, for example, the CFD Réseau de Vivarais or the S.E. Somme (part of which is now the preserved CFBS)  but also included railways like the Chemins de Fer du Corse, which until 1945 was operated by the CFD, or the Réseau Breton  which was conceded to the mainline CF de l'Ouest who farmed out its operation to the SE.

These companies, especially the CFD, built or ordered their own standardised rolling stock (there was also some standardisation of station buildings etc) and the Billard A80D (along with others of similar design) was built in collaboration with the CFD to economise the operation of its concessions and was oriignally only supplied to the CFD. There were actually two versions of the A80D , the original design for metre gauge railways on their own rights of way, which included the Réseau des Charentes et des Deux-Sèvres and a narrower/longer version for the CFD's many roadside tramways that had a smaller loading gauge.  In the end there were more of the latter but I think all of those preserved and the prototype for the REE model were the wider ones as the "heavier" railways they operated on such as the Vivarais and Corsica lasted longer and in some cases are stil running with more modern equipment. 

The CFD in particular became a builder and supplier of railway equipment- originally for the railways it ran- and remains in that and other associated businesses.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Pacific231G

[Northroader]

There’s a range of 3D printed items for French metre gauge here: (depending on how keen you are on 3D)

 

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/3d_printed-french-metre-gauge.htm

 

 

[jamie92208]

53 minutes ago, Northroader said:

There’s a range of 3D printed items for French metre gauge here: (depending on how keen you are on 3D)

 

http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/3d_printed-french-metre-gauge.htm

 

 

Thanks for the link.  The Billa4d looks nice.  I've bookmarked it for the future.  I've got one of his LMH bodies for Green Ayre and am quite impressed.

 

Jamie

[Northroader]

Good! Now, matey, digging around this morning, I’ve struck gold, an active thread running on the CFD Charente. It’s on a highly useful forum designed to help waverers jump into metre gauge, beware!

 

http://www.passion-metrique.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9328&start=435

 

And by the way, also lifted out of the Forum:

 

 

(The Model lever is obviously placed too close to the track for the weight to swing round, or clear the train, for that matter)

Edited January 4, 2023 by Northroader

[jamie92208]

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

Good! Now, matey, digging around this morning, I’ve struck gold, an active thread running on the CFD Charente. It’s on a highly useful forum designed to help waverers jump into metre gauge, beware!

 

http://www.passion-metrique.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9328&start=435

 

And by the way, also lifted out of the Forum:

 

 

(The Model lever is obviously placed too close to the track for the weight to swing round, or clear the train, for that matter)

Thanks again.  That's wasted another hourvof my life.  No I'm joking.  Brilliant information. One of the contrubutors on that thread is Malcolm Ravensdale  who I am in touch with via  Facebook group.  It's a great resource.

 

Jamie

[jamie92208]

Good evening.  I got an hour in the shed this evening and got a bit further with the wagon chassis.  I managed to finish the brake rigging which is about as complex as a Slaters coach bogie but in a smaller space. The evidence is here.

Not too easy to see but it is all there apart from the brake shoes and the brake lever which come later.  

 

The next stage is the springs where the springs are each built up from 5 etched leaves.   Al good fun.   I'm also thinking about the size of the layout.  I want it ti go into the back of a hatchback easily as I may not have the Volvo estate for ever.   Thus I think that I can make the total length about 8'.  This gives me a scale length of just over 100 metres.   The loops at stations were generally 200 metres with 150 metres of usable loop.   There will obviously have to be some selective compression and fairly short trains.  However there probably won't be anything more than the Billard railcar and a good train.  I'll have a short fold down fiddle yard at each end probably with cassettes so that the loco can be turned.   

 

Lots to think about.

 

Jamie

[Gordonwis]

On 04/01/2023 at 10:42, jamie92208 said:

Thanks for the link.  The Billa4d looks nice.  I've bookmarked it for the future.  I've got one of his LMH bodies for Green Ayre and am quite impressed.

 

Jamie

 

 

The 3D Billard A80D has been usurped by a pukka RTR model:

 

Obtainable in UK , eg 

 

https://hobb-e-mail.com/ree-vm006-cfd-billard-a80d-no316-57821-p.asp

 

and

 

https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/ree-hom--hoe-narrow-gauge-1993-c.asp

[jamie92208]

7 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

 

 

The 3D Billard A80D has been usurped by a pukka RTR model:

 

Obtainable in UK , eg 

 

https://hobb-e-mail.com/ree-vm006-cfd-billard-a80d-no316-57821-p.asp

 

and

 

https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/ree-hom--hoe-narrow-gauge-1993-c.asp

Thanks sadly I'm a 7mm modeller but I need to find a decent drawing of them so I can sort an underframe out.  Axles are no problem, Slaters do them for Om and I can sort out a motor gearbox.

 

Jamie

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by jamie92208

[Northroader]

There’s a useful site where they’re restoring a Billard, (which just happens to have been made for the CFD Charente section, and ordered the month I was born!), leading dimensions, a few body drawings, and a load of good photos:

 

http://www.passion-metrique.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12016

 

The wheels look a very piddly size, (550mm), I fancy it would be best to use the available Slaters jobs, hide em behind the frames etc, paint the whole lot black, tuck away under the car, and not a lot of folks will spot the difference.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Northroader

[Andy Hayter]

Alan Marlow of the French Railway Society has produced a 7mm:ft body for a Billard railcar - although with detail differences between units I cannot vouch that it is suitable for your line.   The latest issue has an article on motorising it.  

 

I will try and track down drawings in the various books on autorails but in the meantime the A80 has produced drawings in a number of editions of Voie Libre:

 

July 2013

October 2021

and the SNCF Society Journal (as it was then known)  March 2008

 

 

 

[jamie92208]

18 hours ago, Northroader said:

There’s a useful site where they’re restoring a Billard, (which just happens to have been made for the CFD Charente section, and ordered the month I was born!), leading dimensions, a few body drawings, and a load of good photos:

 

http://www.passion-metrique.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12016

 

The wheels look a very piddly size, (550mm), I fancy it would be best to use the available Slaters jobs, hide em behind the frames etc, paint the whole lot black, tuck away under the car, and not a lot of folks will spot the difference.

 

 

550mm scales out as 1' 9.5" plus a tad.  I've just checked and Slaters do a 2'0 diameter disc driving wheel for the County Donegal railcars.  That's only about 1mm oversize.  Unless there's a rivet counter with a portable laser scanner those should do.  I'm sure I could put some bogie frames together and might be able to sort out a motor/ gearbox.  I suppose one idea would be to butcher a 00 diesel chassis that has the right bogie centres. A late friend of mine used an American BoBo chassis to producec a lovely double Fairlie in 7mm NG.  The Billiard seems to be coming together as an idea.

 

Once again, thanks for all the inputs.

 

Jamie

Edited January 7, 2023 by jamie92208

[Pacific231G]

10 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

Alan Marlow of the French Railway Society has produced a 7mm:ft body for a Billard railcar - although with detail differences between units I cannot vouch that it is suitable for your line.   The latest issue has an article on motorising it.  

 

I will try and track down drawings in the various books on autorails but in the meantime the A80 has produced drawings in a number of editions of Voie Libre:

 

July 2013

October 2021

and the SNCF Society Journal (as it was then known)  March 2008

 

 

 

Alan's body is for the original wider bodied A80D (I know that because I supplied him with the drawings for it including some detailed curves for the ends from GEMME) so is fine for the CFD Charentes & Deux-Sevres.

[JeffP]

There used to be one of those Billard railcars based at Lingostiere on the Chemins de Fer de la Provence.

It was present when I first visited in August 1997, along with a Renault one, very attractive.

The latter had a "bonnet" at one end like a 1950's car.

[Pacific231G]

15 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

550mm scales out as 1' 9.5" plus a tad.  I've just checked and Slaters do a 2'0 diameter disc driving wheel for the County Donegal railcars.  That's only about 1mm oversize.  Unless there's a rivet counter with a portable laser scanner those should do.  I'm sure I could put some bogie frames together and might be able to sort out a motor/ gearbox.  I suppose one idea would be to butcher a 00 diesel chassis that has the right bogie centres. A late friend of mine used an American BoBo chassis to producec a lovely double Fairlie in 7mm NG.  The Billiard seems to be coming together as an idea.

 

Once again, thanks for all the inputs.

 

Jamie

Hi Jamie

Alan Marlow used an Athearn AMD103 P40 (bought at a  swapmeet) to motorise his. All eight wheels are powered and there are stub axles inserted into the gears so he was able to turn up longer stubs for 23mm gauge (correct for metre gauge in 1:43.5 scale. I think most 0m modellers use S scale 22.5mm gauge but given that in S scale almost everything is scratchbuilt one might as well get the gauge right)

I think Alan used the Athearn wheels and he fabricated side frames from Plasticard)

 

[jamie92208]

I said in the title that this would be a slow build.  It hasn't gone to sleep but thanks to Alan Marlow I now a kit for the Billard railcar that I need.   It was waiting for me at our daughters when we arrived there in the UK and is now back in France.   I unpacked it this morning and this was the result.

A bit of work needed but it looks very nice.  Thanks Alan.   I need to find the GP38 that I have lurking in the shed somewhere.

 

Jamie

 

[ianathompson]

That looks to be a nice kit of the Billard A80D.

When I started in 7mm NG, forty odd years ago, such things were just pipe dreams.

 

 

I was forced to scratchbuild mine, without diagrams etc, hence the inaccuracies.

It used a lot of car filler and the ends were done with styrene over a mould in the cooker.... definitely when my mother was out!

It has just been remotored to give it a new lease of life.

 

Ian T

 

[jamie92208]

6 hours ago, ianathompson said:

That looks to be a nice kit of the Billard A80D.

When I started in 7mm NG, forty odd years ago, such things were just pipe dreams.

 

 

I was forced to scratchbuild mine, without diagrams etc, hence the inaccuracies.

It used a lot of car filler and the ends were done with styrene over a mould in the cooker.... definitely when my mother was out!

It has just been remotored to give it a new lease of life.

 

Ian T

 

That looks great Ian. What gauge do you use please. 

 

Jamie

[ianathompson]

2 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

That looks great Ian. What gauge do you use please. 

 

Thanks for yout interest Jamie.

 

I use standard OO, i.e 16.5mm, for the gauge.

Technically this makes it  On30 or Oe to use modern terms.

 

It was built in the late 1970s so it has lasted longer than most of the prototypes.

It originally used a second hand Tri-ang Hymek chassis.

This was soon upgraded with a Roco Sik acting as a power bogie.

Unfortunately this had recently started playing up, hence the remotoring.

 

I dont want to hijack the thread so if you are interested the AFK (my layout) can be found in the footer.

Alternatively the railcar, and its sisters can be found here.

 

You will need to scroll down for it.

 

Ian T