LSWR Drummond goods livery

[Camperdown]

There have been a coupled of LSWR livery questions on here.  I'll just add another.

 

I'm scratch building a G6 and plan to finish it in the Drummond goods livery.  Bradley (in the Drummond volume) says that the wheels and frames below the running plate were green for both passenger engines (Royal green) and goods engines (holly green).  Is that right?  The M7 at the NRM and all the models I've seen have green wheels but black frames.  Not that preserved locos or models are necessarily representative, and the LSWR under Drummond may have modified painting styles with time.

 

Can anybody shed light on frame colours?  Thanks.

[corneliuslundie]

Have you looked at the HMRS volume on LSWR liveries? John Harvey is very thorough.

https://hmrs.org.uk/southern-style-part-one-lswr-book.html

It was produced by my predecessor as Books Editor so I am not familiar with the content.

Jonathan

[Nick C]

Looking at the HMRS Livery Register No 3 LSWR and Southern:

 

"Goods Locomotives 1883-1922. ... As originally specified, the boiler, main frames (below the platform) ... were painted dark green. ... Long before Urie's time, the guard irons, and probably the frames too had become black"

 

It also says of the Drummond passenger livery: "The following components were painted black: ... main frame and motion plate exteriors ..."

[Camperdown]

Thanks for that.  I'm inclined to go for green frames and wheels (with tan motion plate and inside frames).  I realise that somewhere I have a copy of EF Carter's railway liveries book, but it probably just repeats the same information.  Carter is really just a collection of quotes, unlike Hambledon (Locomotives Worth Modelling) which includes recollections of locos as first appeared.

[Nick Holliday]

16 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Looking at the HMRS Livery Register No 3 LSWR and Southern:

 

"Goods Locomotives 1883-1922. ... As originally specified, the boiler, main frames (below the platform) ... were painted dark green. ... Long before Urie's time, the guard irons, and probably the frames too had become black"

 

It also says of the Drummond passenger livery: "The following components were painted black: ... main frame and motion plate exteriors ..."

Livery Register No 3 has been superseded by Southern Style Part One London & South Western Railway, although I suspect that little of the information has changed. However, it is a bit ambiguous about the frame colour. It states that the frames originally (1885?) were painted in the dark green but a later (1896) paint specification sent to Messrs Dübs & Co, regarding the 700 class requires "The outside of frames, guard bars ...... to have one coat of lead colour paint and two coats of Japan black." This instruction also appears in an earlier Adams paint specification for passenger locos.

[Camperdown]

13 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

Livery Register No 3 has been superseded by Southern Style Part One London & South Western Railway, although I suspect that little of the information has changed. However, it is a bit ambiguous about the frame colour. It states that the frames originally (1885?) were painted in the dark green but a later (1896) paint specification sent to Messrs Dübs & Co, regarding the 700 class requires "The outside of frames, guard bars ...... to have one coat of lead colour paint and two coats of Japan black." This instruction also appears in an earlier Adams paint specification for passenger locos.

Thanks for that.  So probably both black and green are authentic.  I can believe that green was originally specified for the frames but that was later changed to black.  I'm still thinking of painting the frames green.