Falling down the 7mm rabbit hole.

[doilum]

2 hours ago, Player of trains said:

I'm curious about this Coffepot too, was it a kit and of what loco? Not a coffee pot as the GER 0-4-0s were sometimes called or was it a Vertical boiler which usually get the moniker, sounds like something I would like to track down.

It was the Neilson design as used by the GE. The 4mm white metal castings were crude even by the standards of the day. I cannot remember what the motion was made from. This was before the introduction of etched brass so the rods may well have been whitemetal too.

 

[bluestag]

4 hours ago, doilum said:

Probably not . Compensation was a black art associated with the mysterious worlds of P4 / S4. To be fair, I have never had a lot of joy with wire pick ups. In O gauge, Slater's plunger or the American system have proved totally reliable.

I swear by slaters plungers.    For small locos I swear by compensation or springing.  Even my 0-8-0 is sprung.   The American system apparently is dubious for digital installations, although I'm not clear why.    I suppose it is the risk of getting a hot wire down a motor wire, which will fry the decoder.

[doilum]

It is the risk of live supersructures that puts people off. The solution is to isolate both loco and tender chassis from their bodywork. I am still DC but have always isolated the tender chassis. My long term project Seagull has the loco isolated too although, to be fair the valve gear is a work on progress.

[Happy Hippo]

Back on the motor saga.

 

Julian Wynn of Taff Vale Models has very nice motors:

 

https://taffvalemodels.ecwid.com/DC-Motors-and-Gearbox-c47395743

Edited February 4, 2023 by Happy Hippo

[pwr]

13 hours ago, bluestag said:

I swear by slaters plungers.    For small locos I swear by compensation or springing.  Even my 0-8-0 is sprung.   The American system apparently is dubious for digital installations, although I'm not clear why.    I suppose it is the risk of getting a hot wire down a motor wire, which will fry the decoder.

 

Yes I use these exclusively too. However for many locos the springs are too strong so I usually cut about a third off.

 

Paul R

[bluestag]

2 hours ago, pwr said:

 

Yes I use these exclusively too. However for many locos the springs are too strong so I usually cut about a third off.

 

Paul R

Really?   The springs lift the locos off the stop?   Possibly you want to try to weigh them down a bit more.   Just as long as they slip when up against a buffer stop.

[Player of trains]

I am rather happy as I found a parcel from Roxey waiting for me when I got home yesterday and work is commencing again on the Y5. I'll post some proper photos when I am home and for the time being spare my blushes from my less than clean soldering. 

The gearbox does run very sweetly but I do have a question about limiting its movement. I'm rather positive a later stage in the instructions will explain how to fasten the gearbox in place and I have just not got to it . But how do people usually fix the gearbox in place if it has some sideways or up and down movement as so far it is free to swing on the axle. Does anyone have a preferred method? 

[doilum]

Sideplay can be limited by washers/shims. The motor can be restrained by either an electrical tywrap or length of thick copper wire to form a saddle. The restraining strap is passed through two holes drilled in one of the horizontal stretchers.

If you are using plunger pick ups it is helpful to have a dummy run to see how these different components interelate.

[Player of trains]

Thanks for the advice Doilum, pickups are tonight's job so I'll be able to put these into practice. I would use the plunger pickups but I have already spent entirely too much so copper rod in a printed saddle is going to be the order of the day. I may fit the plunger pickups at some point so it will all be left accessible if I want too. 

[doilum]

2 hours ago, Player of trains said:

Thanks for the advice Doilum, pickups are tonight's job so I'll be able to put these into practice. I would use the plunger pickups but I have already spent entirely too much so copper rod in a printed saddle is going to be the order of the day. I may fit the plunger pickups at some point so it will all be left accessible if I want too. 

The copper is usually the earth wire from an offcut of 1.5 twin and earth mains lighting cable. Also a good material for boiler and cab plumbing.

Edited February 7, 2023 by doilum

[sir douglas]

I've had mixed results with plungers, they worked fine on the 1st loco I tried them on but would work out the 2nd time

[doilum]

6 hours ago, sir douglas said:

I've had mixed results with plungers, they worked fine on the 1st loco I tried them on but would work out the 2nd time

I can only vouch for Slater's. If they are less than perfect there are three areas to investigate.

Assembly. The plunger must move with perfect freedom on the housing. Careful use of a drill or round file is needed to remove any moulding flash without enlarging the hole. Once assembled with it's spring the plunger should " ping" back to it's maximum extension. I usually omit the second nut and prefer to solder the tag direct to the end of the plunger. I use the finest multistrand wire I can salvage.

Location. Ensure that the plunger is rubbing against the back of the flange and not the plastic spokes. I bought a second hand Hunslet with pick up issues. The original builder had chosen to use JPL cast wheels and yes, the plunger was smack in line with the insulated rim.  Little filing and superglue relocated the housing by 1mm and solved the issue.

Installation. The bush needs to be a perfect fit in the frame. Too loose and it will waggle about constantly loosing contact. Too tight and it will constrict the movement of the plunger. Loose housings can be improved with a little araldite or gel superglue. These issues are best addressed before the frames are assembled. It may be necessary to redrill the holes to accommodate a particular gearbox option. If

the frames are a little under sized, ie too narrow, Slater's provide spacing washers. If the frames are dead scale width you .might need to carefully thin the thickness of the flange.

Correctly installed, the plungers should "dance" as they accommodate any side play in the axle or slight imperfections in the true running of the rim. Hopefully this is of help to anyone new to the subject.

Edited April 18, 2023 by doilum

[Player of trains]

Afternoon everybody, I've been sat on this project for a while and now I'm rather eager to get back to it. I'm hoping to tackle some of the white-metal parts this evening but I have never soldered white metal before and its a skill I really need to learn. I'm used to working with the material as I mostly model in 009 but I've always glued it, this will require far sturdier joins so how do people best recommend soldering white-metal? I have low melt solder already but do I need a low temperature iron? And if so what temperatures? 

I know a lot of this information can really be solved by a quick google but I've found a fair bit of variation so I'd be very grateful if people can help me come to a general consensus for the best way to practice soldering white-metal.

 

Cheers, Alec

[roythebus1]

On 02/02/2023 at 12:45, doilum said:

Christmas 1980 brought the Sevenscale pug kit. It was supposed to be a one off mantle piece model....

 

I've still got one part-built in the box that I started in 1978 as a project for Bec models! there's a few bit missing and the axles have gone rusty. there's also a Big Big Hymek that I motorised to get finished or sell on. I'm not getting any younger.

[doilum]

I followed up the pug with the Piercy J72 also in whitemetal. The low voltage iron  was quickly discarded in favour of my trusty 80 W Weller. This was given plenty of time to get to full temperature and used with a lightning fast barely touch the subject tech

 

 

nique. The surfaces to be soldered must be immaculate. Revisit using a fibreglass pencil seconds before you solder. Use lots of the recommended flux ( I think it was Carrs Red label someone will correct me)

One of the items needs to be tinned, fluxed again and held in position whilst threatening it with the big iron. The solder from the tinning should start to flow and a little downward pressure as you withdraw the iron will keep it in position as the solder sets.

Small items were fixed with epoxy, today we have CA.

To be honest it is harder than brass or nickel silver. Accidents.may.happen but can be repaired using solder as a filler or with car body filler.

This is only one approach.........

...

 

 

 

 

 

[Player of trains]

Thanks for the sound advice, I think I have managed to solder the dumb buffers to the buffer beams but I've shored up the join with cyano. I think I'll be epoxying the rest of the white-metal parts for this kit together. Gel CA glue and epoxy seem to do the job, not the best solution but the large whitemetal components on this model were just acting as a heat sink and absorbing more heat than I was comfortable with from the iron and I'd be pretty uncomfortable running the risk of melting the tank sides when I try to put that together. 

[Player of trains]

Good afternoon everyone, back onto the O scale wagon this week, the Y4 is progressing nicely but I've had a distraction arrive with a purchase I made in March finally making its way to me from the US. After a bit of hunting in March I've bought the Rivarossi kit for the Illinois Central Railroad No.382. It is a rather nice kit and I rather wish a few more plastic kits were available for O scale locos. Not an original idea I know but I'm building this model as an Anglicised export delivered during the builders strikes of the first decade of the 20th century. I'll drop a few pictures of the initial construction in the thread as soon as I am able but I just wanted to ask if anyone else had built one before and if anyone had a spare motorising kit I could acquire.

If I can't find one I do have a few ideas using Slaters 5'1" drivers and Roxey components to power the small beastie but I'd like to at least use the purpose made wheels if I can find them.