Cwm Hir - converting a mini layout to 009 (was 'Bryn-y-ffa')

[Dragonfly]

Evening all,

 

So, over Christmas I was watching a nice little roundy-roundy layout on The E Bay. TT3 gauge, simple oval of track, with a loop at the back, with a train (a Brit and pair of Mk1s), for £130. In the end I went for it, bidded, won, and collected it "on my way home" after Christmas. (Note: Dolgellau to Stoke, via Merthyr Tydfil, is not a particularly direct route)

 

The thing is, I don't have any other TT3 gauge stock. And this settrack is likely a bit tight for the new TT120... which I also don't have any stock for. But what I do have, is a growing collection of 009 stock...

 

So the idea is, to take this layout, convert it to 009... which should be easy enough, as much of the scenery is either 00 or N gauge anyway... and generally adjust the existing scenery to my own vision.

 

The layout is 4' by 2'3", or thereabouts, so fit's nicely in the back of the Polo anyway. And as it arrived, looked like this: (excuse the mess - I started a "quick reoganisation" in there in early 2017, which I haven't quite finished)

 

 

So a good ready-made layout to begin with. The main focus to begin with will be the track (of course), followed by the road, then we'll see what happens. I'm intending to put in a small half platform to the left of the crossing too...

 

I have already started work on this, but I'll post about that tomorrow.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Dragonfly
Renaming thread

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Very nice - as an 009 display layout with a train gently trundling through the open scenery it could be really relaxing to watch.  Whoever sold the layout seems to me to have an eye for scenery.  Will be interested to see how it turns out.  Have fun, Keith.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Dragonfly]

4 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Very nice - as an 009 display layout with a train gently trundling through the open scenery it could be really relaxing to watch.  Whoever sold the layout seems to me to have an eye for scenery.  Will be interested to see how it turns out.  Have fun, Keith.

 

He certainly did. I don't think I'll be doing much to the scenery, as it's all wonderfully done. One of the lineside fences may be replaced, and I've broken a bit of telegraph wire, but aside from that, it's all great. The only scenic thing I want to sort is the road, turn it into a more worn country track.

[Dragonfly]

So, yesterday's work:

 

After procrastinating for a month, I finally got to work on this. The main sudden driver for progress was that I've got a booking for it, at a local club's open day in April.

 

Firstly, I removed any loose items. A few scenic bits had come lose with the layout being shifted around, the glue not being sufficient to withstand my driving or handling. So things like the sheep are safely put in a tub to one side for future re-attachment.

 

Next step was to remove the TT gauge track. This is a sectional train set track, with the ballast base in situ, so very easy to remove (just unscrew from the board and clip out), so was removed intact for future use elsewhere (some form of train set will happen at some point). This left me with this:

 

 

Next step, putting down cork to account for the previous track's built-in base:

 

 

Not the tidiest job, but it'll do the trick and be covered in ballast eventually anyway.

 

This was followed by pinning down some Peco 009 track.

 

 

Using 009 track on the front, and standard N set-track on the fiddle yard. Thankfully the 009 track's radius was almost the same as the TT gauge track, so the tiniest bit of tweaking made it fit in nicely.

 

That's all for this post, more to come soon!

[Dragonfly]

Now, laying the new track, highlighted a slight quandary around the level crossing:

 

 

The road is somewhat higher up than the track now.. So difficult to disguise. And it being a strip of plywood, makes it a potentially big job to alleviate. What to do? Sand it down? Chisel it down? Try to take up the whole road and replace it with something thinner, or just paint the road surface onto the baseboard?

 

Well, as it happens, I found this:

 

 

Yes, the road surface is actually quite thin, but raised up on an extra piece on each side of the track. A much easier fix. So up it came:

 

 

And back down it went, glued back in place with PVA.

 

 

A much more appropriate level.

 

Not the most riveting post, granted, but it's all getting documented.

 

That'll be it for a couple of days, until a supplies trip to the local railway emporia on Saturday.

[Dragonfly]

Not a lot to report this week, other things have gotten in the way a bit. But today I got a little bit of time to arrange the track to figure out the side of the layout not yet shown, the fiddle yard.

 

 

This arrangement seems to work nicely, gives three loops and four sidings, more than enough for such a simple layout. Tomorrow night hopefully get the flex track cut and all of it fixed down.

[Dragonfly]

Finally a couple of hours in the garage allowed for a loop to be put down, pinned in place, and the wiring connected up to a controller. And, I mean, that obviously necessitates getting a loco out for a run, surely?

 

 

 

[Dragonfly]

And a little bit more work done, fleshing out the fiddle yard.

 

 

And of course, why just run a loco when it can be pulling something?

 

 

 

[happyChappy]

Seeing as you've made such an excellent job of the scenic side of your layout the fiddle yard side would make an interesting station/ quarry / workshop site if also treated to your scenic skills. Then you'll have 2 layouts in one.

[Dragonfly]

1 hour ago, happyChappy said:

Seeing as you've made such an excellent job of the scenic side of your layout the fiddle yard side would make an interesting station/ quarry / workshop site if also treated to your scenic skills. Then you'll have 2 layouts in one.

 

Ah if only. Unfortunately I can't take any credit for the scenic side, that's all thanks to the gentleman I bought the layout off (in its original TT3 gauge guise).

 

My scenic input to this layout will be solely remedial work, a few bits of tinkering (ballasting, altering the road surface, etc), and maybe a few additions after that. 😊

Edited February 17, 2023 by Dragonfly

[Dragonfly]

A little bit to show off, not a lot, but it's been a busy couple of weeks. Somehow, though, I've done a first pass of some messy ballasting...

 

 

 

...which, after vacuuming (USB microvac to the rescue!), doesn't look too bad...

 

 

...followed by some equally messy (though the worst is hidden) wiring...

 

 

This will form part of a little switch panel for the power, lights, and eventually signals.

 

So now the front can be isolated, and the back half can be fed from either the left or right ends (to allow power to the sidings).

 

Next up is to cut a bit more of the old trackside cork away, to get rid of the too-straight lines next to the track, and fill the gaps with more ballast.

 

Still got about six weeks until the inaugural showing, but it'll soon pass.

[Dragonfly]

Another minor update, not a lot happened due to work and shows, but a little bit of time yesterday saw the beginnings of a new level crossing.

 

First I wanted to hide the sleepers from showing through the gaps, so a little bit of filler...

 

 

...then black paint to hide the bright white filler...

 

 

...and (once dried) it's ready for the planks gluing into place.

 

 

Yes, I know, the filler is showing again. Cleaning the track to ensure things ran had consequences. So it's not perfect, but when filed as necessary and weathered down, it should look suitable.

 

Have also marked out the approximate centre and edges of the to-be-narrowed lane. Preston show also saw me buying a few scenic necessities, so next up is getting some roadworks done.

[Dragonfly]

Now to play in the road.

 

Sunday and Monday became tidy-up sessions, but Tuesday saw me getting the Milliput out and adding some verges to the lane.

 

 

A nice realistic uranium yellow, lovely.

 

This is of course just to break up the flat surface. And after returning on Wednesday to paint the area in the appropriate base colours, it's starting to come together.

 

 

Next up is to add some vegetation to the verges, with scatters and such, and to weather down the lane surface.

 

As a side note, I decided to invest in a new gadget:

 

 

Hornby's HM6000 "app control", so the layout can be driven from my phone. A nice little addition, and works pretty well so far (the Gaugemaster Combi will be taken everywhere this goes, and used as backup, of course).

 

And no, that's not where it will be placed during operation.

[Dragonfly]

The next question, for a future step, is about the cottage. It's technically an N gauge building, if I'm right. To my eye it "just about" works, as old cottages often have small doorways etc (as someone over 6 foot I've found that out the hard way).

 

So do I keep it in place, or swap it out for an 00 gauge building of similar footprint (which I happen to have)?

 

The two options, side by side

 

 

 

Thoughts?

[simonmcp]

The OO one looks better in my humble opinion.

[009 micro modeller]

I’ve only just come across this thread but it all looks very good so far. I also think the 00 building would be better, I think if anything N scale does appear it would be better right at the back of the layout (for perspective), whereas that building is towards the front. Trees, walls etc all look fine as they come in various different sizes anyway, though it would be good to see a closer photo of the loco next to the post and rail fence and the signal to see how that looks. Was anything on the original layout actually TT scale, rather than a mix of 00 and N?

 

Your additions are nicely done, and I think it works as 009 and TT locos and stock often seem to have a similar overall size.

Edited March 17, 2023 by 009 micro modeller

[Jeremy Cumberland]

I've been following this thread with interest. You've already made all the changes that occurred to me when I saw the first pictures, and done them far better than I would have done (ah, no, not all the changes. You've still got the signals. I wonder if they're staying), so I'd trust your own eye rather than mine, and you do of course have the layout in front of you. But the new building looks like it will dominate everything else. The walls and trees and telegraph poles are to scale with the existing building, as is the plot the building sits in. How much else are you thinking of changing?

 

There aren't any people at the moment. I wonder if a person by the cottage will make a difference, perhaps making it look horribly out of scale, or perhaps showing that it's fine as it is.

[009 micro modeller]

37 minutes ago, Jeremy C said:

There aren't any people at the moment. I wonder if a person by the cottage will make a difference, perhaps making it look horribly out of scale, or perhaps showing that it's fine as it is.

It’s hard to tell for certain without a straight-on side view, but I just think the N scale cottage looks a bit small next to the Hunslet (which is a relatively small loco). Also it might be nice to add a road vehicle, but will that affect the cottage?

 

4 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

So do I keep it in place, or swap it out for an 00 gauge building of similar footprint (which I happen to have)?

I think it’s your layout so it’s ultimately up to you, and everything else you’ve done so far looks great and fits nicely with the reusable bits of the original scenery. Would it be possible to use a single-storey 00 building, given that the original one is a bungalow? If it was me I might be tempted to reorganise the house area a bit more and maybe even replace it with a little halt platform plus shelter, but that’s probably just personal preference.

 

I quite like the level crossing without gates, more appropriate to a very rural narrow gauge line.

[bmthtrains - David]

I definitely wouldn’t use n gauge buildings, they are almost half the scale and will look very odd indeed. 
 

David 

[Dragonfly]

Thanks muchly for the advice, everyone. I didn't think I'd be able to get away with keeping the N-gauge cottage, so the 00-gauge one it is.

 

In general I'm trying to keep as much of the old stuff in as I can, with respect to the original builder, but in some cases that's not very doable, and it seems this is one of those cases.

 

23 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Was anything on the original layout actually TT scale, rather than a mix of 00 and N?

 

Only the track and stock was TT, the rest is all either N or 00. The figures, animals, walls etc were all 00. The cottage, telegraph poles and signals are N (though the signals have 00 ladders).

 

23 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Your additions are nicely done, and I think it works as 009 and TT locos and stock often seem to have a similar overall size.

 

Thanks very much. That's been my thinking from the start, when I first saw the layout I figured it seemed close enough.

 

21 hours ago, Jeremy C said:

You've still got the signals. I wonder if they're staying

 

The signals, to my eye, work well enough for this first stage in the project, so will be staying as is. I do have some motorised ones that I might replace them with at some point though, unless there are more suitable 009 ones? The aforementioned 00 gauge ladders do seem to help disguise their N gauge nature.

 

21 hours ago, Jeremy C said:

But the new building looks like it will dominate everything else. The walls and trees and telegraph poles are to scale with the existing building, as is the plot the building sits in. How much else are you thinking of changing?

 

The building is bigger, and will necessitate expanding the "garden" behind it a bit, as it doesn't leave space to get from the back to the side. But that can be done relatively easily.

The telegraph poles, though... I'll monitor that situation, and replace them if necessary. As it stands, the "wires" need redoing anyway.

 

21 hours ago, Jeremy C said:

There aren't any people at the moment. I wonder if a person by the cottage will make a difference, perhaps making it look horribly out of scale, or perhaps showing that it's fine as it is.

 

The people on the original layout were all 00 gauge, and I Think if any are placed too close to the original building, it would be a bit obvious there's a scale difference. Even the loco being too close to it looks a little odd, but as I said, rural cottages can be small. I think that once I've uprooted the old cottage, I'll keep hold of it just in case.

 

20 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

If it was me I might be tempted to reorganise the house area a bit more and maybe even replace it with a little halt platform plus shelter, but that’s probably just personal preference.

 

The hope is, for "phase two" of the changes (I don't think I have time before it's first booked show), is to add a very small halt platform to the left of the crossing, very minimal in scope.

 

20 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I quite like the level crossing without gates, more appropriate to a very rural narrow gauge line.

 

Agreed. I'd kept hold of the old gates, and have got some smaller ones somewhere, but at this point I'm also thinking that it looks better without.

 

Thanks all :-)

[009 micro modeller]

23 minutes ago, Dragonfly said:

Only the track and stock was TT, the rest is all either N or 00. The figures, animals, walls etc were all 00. The cottage, telegraph poles and signals are N (though the signals have 00 ladders).

That’s interesting to know. Somehow the telegraph poles look OK, unless you’ve found that they’re too low compared to the Hunslet (which probably won’t be an issue with the signals).

[Dragonfly]

21 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Somehow the telegraph poles look OK, unless you’ve found that they’re too low compared to the Hunslet (which probably won’t be an issue with the signals).

 

Aye, the signals look absolutely fine to me, which is nice. Standard gauge 00 ones would certainly look too big.

 

As for telegraph poles... I'm uncertain at the moment, but I do have a pack of 00 ones at the ready.

[Dragonfly]

Not had a lot of spare time this weekend, what with playing at Statfold yesterday and life admin today, but have just gotten myself an hour in the garage now.

 

First on the agenda was to reattach a hill. While laying the new track, the left hand tunnel needed removing, which thankfully was a couple of pieces of sheet wood so came up easily enough. These are now glued back in place.

 

 

Needing a new roadside wall, and similar work as the main lane, which will also have to happen soon.

 

Then, I got the old cottage up.

 

 

Thankfully this came off intact (incredibly), so hopefully will be reused on another project in the future.

 

A bit of fettling was needed, to remove a bit of hedge, but the new one fits in very nicely.

 

 

 

Then I've made a start with glue, scatter, and foliage. It has been messy, but the first stretch is done. Waiting for it to dry to see how it looks, and how much has stuck in place. The colours are brighter while it's wet, but hoping that once dry it'll look presentable.

 

 

And one photo with the cottage as well 

 

 

The extraneous bits will be scraped off once all the greenery is done, then work can be done on the lane.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Dragonfly
misspelled "wall"

[Jeremy Cumberland]

  

22 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

The signals, to my eye, work well enough for this first stage in the project, so will be staying as is. I do have some motorised ones that I might replace them with at some point though, unless there are more suitable 009 ones?

Fair enough, but few narrow gauge lines had any signals at all, and the yellow distant in particular seems out of place. I could be wrong, but I don't think any narrow gauge railway in Britain had yellow working distants; few had working distants at all (the Isle of Man Railway did, as did at least Bratton Fleming on the Lynton and Barnstaple; the NWNGR had distants, but they may have been fixed, and the Ffestiniog had disc signals that rotated on a vertical axis that may have functioned as distants, but the appear to have been regarded as stop signals). All these signals would have been painted red. By the time yellow distant signals appeared on standard gauge railways in the 1920s, most narrow gauge lines that had previously had signalling were operating under light railway orders or, in the case of the L&B, had decided to do away with working distants (I am not sure if Bratton Fleming kept fixed distants; most stations on the L&B didn't have distants at all). The Isle of Man Railway retained working distants, but they remained red.

[Dragonfly]

48 minutes ago, Jeremy C said:

  

Fair enough, but few narrow gauge lines had any signals at all, and the yellow distant in particular seems out of place. I could be wrong, but I don't think any narrow gauge railway in Britain had yellow working distants; few had working distants at all (the Isle of Man Railway did, as did at least Bratton Fleming on the Lynton and Barnstaple; the NWNGR had distants, but they may have been fixed, and the Ffestiniog had disc signals that rotated on a vertical axis that may have functioned as distants, but the appear to have been regarded as stop signals). All these signals would have been painted red. By the time yellow distant signals appeared on standard gauge railways in the 1920s, most narrow gauge lines that had previously had signalling were operating under light railway orders or, in the case of the L&B, had decided to do away with working distants (I am not sure if Bratton Fleming kept fixed distants; most stations on the L&B didn't have distants at all). The Isle of Man Railway retained working distants, but they remained red.

 

Ohhh I see what you mean now, yes, totally get it. Good point, will have to think about that. Yes, the distant will certainly need replacing... Time for me to do a bit of research, I think. Thanks for pointing that out (or should that be "signalling it to me").