District Line Q stock

[roythebus1]

You'll note the Skiley blueprint shows windows in the guard's end of the G class car. Not all the cars had them, I certainly don't remember them having end windows. It may be they were filled in when they were converted to electric door operation. Maybe Skinley based his drawing on the South Acton single car?

 

For the underframe I'd suggest a visit to the LTM and take photos from there. 

 

The central buffer plates differ between the east end and west end. East end has the large box buffer, the west end has the thin flat buffer plate, just a Ward coupler and air pipes, no jumper cables except the receptacle for train shed trolley jumper cable. Are you aware that until about 1956 G stock was mostly east-facing? I read about it last week that the last of the hand-worked door stock was withdrawn around then, so some of the Q23s had to be turned and modified to cover the older stock. There would only be an air reservoir, 2 triple valves and a couple of electrical boxes under the Q38 trailer car 

 

If you need a better drawing of the Q38 curves, I could copy sections of my large scale plan.

 

I've just received some Black Beetle motor bogies which have gone under my partner's EFE 1962 stock. they were a bit pricey with import duty and UK VAT added. But job done, it runs quite nicely.

[roythebus1]

Have you had a look on the FB group District Railway Past and Present for Q23 pics? There's a few on there that will give you some clues on underframe gear. I've just had a look on there and typed Q23 in the search bar, it's come up with quite a few useful pics.

[roythebus1]

This reply to my question on the FB group:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/140868576356606/permalink/1675822312861217/?comment_id=1675829772860471&notif_id=1680338821584569&notif_t=group_comment&ref=notif

[Lord of Narnia]

The Q stock underframe equipment was all quite similar as they all used the same electromagnetic equipment. I did quite a loot of research when I was helping Phil Radley with his Q stock. There is a contactor bank, grid resistances, air reservoir, auxiliary reservoir, air compressor (probably a Westinghouse CP30) and I think. Voltage regulator. There’ll be batteries too and loads of fuses! I’ll try and dig out photos at some point. 
 

the Q27 all faces east until about 7 were turned and converted to west facing in the 1950s. Most of the Q23 were west facing and the remaining east facing cars were converted to trailers. All Q23 driving motor cars had the guards end windows plated over to install the air door controls. The F stock  had the same. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

Have you had a look on the FB group District Railway Past and Present for Q23 pics? There's a few on there that will give you some clues on underframe gear. I've just had a look on there and typed Q23 in the search bar, it's come up with quite a few useful pics.

I didn't know about the FB group but needless to say I've just applied to join!  Thank you for the tip!

[SteveCornford]

Also suggest you think of joining "London Underground Railway Society" LURS for short.

 

Here is a lin to their website https://www.lurs.org.uk/index.htm

 

If you then click on the [Underground News] button you will get a page containing buttons for extractcs of differernt past years of their monthly magazine.  You have to scroll down a bit to see the buttons.

 

Choose [2010], then scroll down til you see April, then select "District Electric Trains Part 14"

 

This will open a PDF copy of part 14 of the article by Piers Connor

 

Scroll down to page 5 0f 9 (actually page 211 of the printed magazine) to see a drawing of the A2 type of bogie.

 

Page 6 of 9 has a K2 bogie drawing.

 

I predict you will then spend some time perusuing the other parts of the magazine article.

 

Hope this helps, Steve

 

ps Is the 4-COR somewhere on your schedule?

 

 

 

[roythebus1]

"We apologise for the delay to the Q23 kit due to further information becoming available". Click.

 

[roythebus1]

Edited April 1, 2023 by roythebus1

[roythebus1]

Photos by Michael Miller on the FB group with thanks.

[Guest]

On 01/04/2023 at 18:39, SteveCornford said:

Also suggest you think of joining "London Underground Railway Society" LURS for short.

 

Here is a lin to their website https://www.lurs.org.uk/index.htm

 

If you then click on the [Underground News] button you will get a page containing buttons for extractcs of differernt past years of their monthly magazine.  You have to scroll down a bit to see the buttons.

 

Choose [2010], then scroll down til you see April, then select "District Electric Trains Part 14"

 

This will open a PDF copy of part 14 of the article by Piers Connor

 

Scroll down to page 5 0f 9 (actually page 211 of the printed magazine) to see a drawing of the A2 type of bogie.

 

Page 6 of 9 has a K2 bogie drawing.

 

I predict you will then spend some time perusuing the other parts of the magazine article.

 

Hope this helps, Steve

 

ps Is the 4-COR somewhere on your schedule?

 

 

 

Hi Steve

I am a member of LURS but I was not aware of that particular artilcle - thank you for the tip, it was a fascinating read!

I based the K2 and A2 bogies on the pictures in "Steam to Silver" - they seem to check out OK against the diagrams in Piers' article.

The 4 Cor is a possibility for the future, though experience with the Eastleigh range has shown that 4-car units do not sell all that well, due to the cost.

Best regards

Stephen

 

[Mike Miller]

Hi there, can I at first, caution anyone from using the Huntley Drawings, there are loads of inaccuracies, and where he hasn't got information, it is conjectural. The Skinley drawings are reasonably accurate, but I have managed to copy the original general arrangement drawings, and I have plonked them on the district line facebook page, here they are also attached here!

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Mike Miller
the end wiew above

[Mike Miller]

K stock (Q27) plan

[Mike Miller]

[Mike Miller]

Edited April 4, 2023 by Mike Miller
G stock (Q23) plan

[jim.snowdon]

On 03/04/2023 at 17:52, 34017Ilfracombe said:

Hi Steve

I am a member of LURS but I was not aware of that particular artilcle - thank you for the tip, it was a fascinating read!

I based the K2 and A2 bogies on the pictures in "Steam to Silver" - they seem to check out OK against the diagrams in Piers' article.

The 4 Cor is a possibility for the future, though experience with the Eastleigh range has shown that 4-car units do not sell all that well, due to the cost.

Best regards

Stephen

 

Back in the late 1980s, the LURS, by way of the late Bob Greenaway, with some assistance from myself, saved considerable quantities of working drawings for the pre-war stocks from the drawing office archive when it was cleared out. The museum had first pick, but they were generally only interested in the large GA drawings and not the detail stuff that is often more useful. Where this collection now resides I don't know, but it might be worth asking.

[Mike Miller]

heres a photo of a Q27 car when new showing the underframe equipment on one side. the compressor, and cylinders

[Lord of Narnia]

Also bare in mind that the G stock equipment changed from when it was delivered when it was amended with new traction motors GE69->WT54Bs.

 

I think the K stock layout was more or less the same. 

[Andy Vincent]

On 03/04/2023 at 17:52, 34017Ilfracombe said:

The 4 Cor is a possibility for the future, though experience with the Eastleigh range has shown that 4-car units do not sell all that well, due to the cost.

As someone who produces 3D printed items for a major trader I will admit to be being baffled at the cost being charged for these units. I get (oh how I get!!) the amount of research and work that goes into the original design, but at £125 to £170 per coach this seems to be way beyond the price that most modellers can afford - and way beyond reasonable costs of production.

 

To be fair, this isn't unique to Eastleigh Models: Rapido charging over £30 for a simple open wagon is heading into the same territory, albeit for a decorated example. Given the pressure on budgets for everything from modelling to exhibitions, I think we are probably heading into a re-assessment of many aspects of the hobby. 

 

Very much a different aspect, but I was struck this week about how a fellow club member had gone out and bought his first resin printer and within a week produced a turnout that pretty much matched the quality of commercial offerings. There may continue to be a place for suppliers who aim at 'turnkey' offerings at premium prices, but I suspect that a new dawn of offerings at a rather lower price point may be approaching albeit with the purchaser doing a little more. In reality in much the same way as Ikea 'ate the lunch' of many suppliers now forgotten.

 

Hopefully, the investment in research and development will continue to be recognised and rewarded but the cost of production of 3D printed items continues to fall dramatically. The wargaming community, not for the first time, perhaps provides some pointers to the future of short-run production where most people just licence the design and print their own items as often as they need them for personal use.

 

Andy

Edited April 15, 2023 by Andy Vincent
Typos!

[Mike Miller]

I'm working on producing drawings of the underframe equipment of Q stock, coming soon!

 

[Mike Miller]

I have taken into account that the G stock equipment changed, I will be basing the drawings on what it looked like when running as Q23 in the sixties

[roythebus1]

Would a photo of my Q38 drawing be of any help in the future? It's dining table size! Probably 1:12 scale

 

[Mike Miller]

yes indeed! very useful!

[Mike Miller]

G stock, Q23 as running in the sixties

[Guest]

On 18/04/2023 at 14:09, Mike Miller said:

Mike, these drawings and photos are really helpful - thank you very much for your contribution.

I am sorry not to have responded earlier but I have been laid low by a bout of Covid, followed by other interventions of real life.

The parts for my prototype models (Q23+Q35+Q38+Q27) are already printed and waiting for me to assemble but I will update the drawings and in particular the underframe detail (some of which was guesswork from photos) to make the final models as accurate as possible.

[Guest]

On 15/04/2023 at 01:48, Andy Vincent said:

As someone who produces 3D printed items for a major trader I will admit to be being baffled at the cost being charged for these units. I get (oh how I get!!) the amount of research and work that goes into the original design, but at £125 to £170 per coach this seems to be way beyond the price that most modellers can afford - and way beyond reasonable costs of production.

 

To be fair, this isn't unique to Eastleigh Models: Rapido charging over £30 for a simple open wagon is heading into the same territory, albeit for a decorated example. Given the pressure on budgets for everything from modelling to exhibitions, I think we are probably heading into a re-assessment of many aspects of the hobby. 

 

Very much a different aspect, but I was struck this week about how a fellow club member had gone out and bought his first resin printer and within a week produced a turnout that pretty much matched the quality of commercial offerings. There may continue to be a place for suppliers who aim at 'turnkey' offerings at premium prices, but I suspect that a new dawn of offerings at a rather lower price point may be approaching albeit with the purchaser doing a little more. In reality in much the same way as Ikea 'ate the lunch' of many suppliers now forgotten.

 

Hopefully, the investment in research and development will continue to be recognised and rewarded but the cost of production of 3D printed items continues to fall dramatically. The wargaming community, not for the first time, perhaps provides some pointers to the future of short-run production where most people just licence the design and print their own items as often as they need them for personal use.

 

Andy

These are all very fair points.

 

I appreciate that current production prices for a kit that requires assembly and motorisation place these models beyond the reach of most modellers.  I also agree that rapidly developing 3D print technology will continue to bring costs down whilst maintaining and improving print quality.

 

One option might be to uncouple the design and the print processes so that modellers can either print designs on their own machines or have them printed by a professional supplier of their choice.

 

As things stand at the moment, I make a profit of less than £10 per car sold (which, incidentally, goes to the Smile Train charity) so, as you might guess, I do the design work simply because I enjoy it.  Nevertheless I would be reluctant to simply give away drawing files that have taken hundreds of hours to research and design (try doing the compound curves of a Q27 roof!) and the risk is that once a DWG file is supplied to a customer it 'escapes into the wild', passed around as a freebie with no respect for the designer's intellectual property.

 

It is, as you say, a rapidly developing field and I am open to this forum's ideas on how best to proceed.

 

Stephen