GW Swindon - capacity to build wagons circa 1900

[Western Star]

The question is simple, I suspect that an answer might not be so easy.

What was the capacity of the wagon works at Swindon for the construction of new wagons in the years between 1885 and 1902? That is, how many new wagons were or could be constructed in each of the years from 1885 to 1902 inclusive?

Whilst someone having the information to hand is the response that pleases, I suspect that the answer might be reference to some annual statistic which was required by government or board of trade.

Pete @K14 any ideas?

Thank you if you are able to assist, regards, Graham

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Western Star

[Compound2632]

Between 1887 and 1902, lots were raised for approximately 24,200 4-plank opens; between 1886 and 1901, lots were raised for approximately 4,900 covered goods wagons (iron minks). These 29,100 wagons account for the bulk of wagon production over a 16-year period, i.e. 1,800 per year.

 

Alternatively, one can look at the numbers allocated over this period, from around No. 40000 to No. 75000 - approximately 35,000 wagons or around 2,200 per year.

 

Looking for the discrepancy, I note getting on for 2,000 loco coal wagons (N diagrams), approaching 1,000 ballast wagons (P diagrams), a similar number of timber trucks (J diagrams), and around 500 cattle wagons (W diagrams) and brake vans (AA diagrams) - with other special types, around another 5,000 or more wagons - which does make up the difference. On the other hand, some lots of opens and vans were given lower numbers, outside the 40000-75000 range, presumably because they were built as renewals of old wagons.

 

One could sit down with a copy of Atkins and work this out in detail but that work can be a bit vague on dates. Pending such an exercise, I'll go with an estimate of 2,200 new wagons built per year. 

 

The Swindon Carriage & Wagon Works were designed and built in the early 1870s under the superintendency of T.G. Clayton, who then moved to Derby to repeat the exercise, the Litchurch Lane Carriage & Wagon Works opening in 1877. It's interesting to compare the capacity of the two works. In the last decade or so of the 19th century, the rate at which old wagons were to be renewed was set at 6,000 per year, the total fleet being around 120,000 wagons by the end of the century - in other words renewals were set at 5% of the fleet per year, implying a mean life expectancy of 20 years. The number of wagons built as additions to stock was rather lower than at Swindon, averaging around 1,000 per year over the same 1887-1902 period. However, the rate of additions falls off in years when renewals were at their peak, so the total rate of wagon building, renewals and additions, was around 6,500 per year at peak. At this time, Bromsgrove Works was building around 1,000 wagons per year, so the capacity of the Litchurch Lane Works was around 5,500 wagons per year. (These are all rough numbers; I'm in the middle of a more detailed analysis.)

 

It needs to be borne in mind that the works were handling maintenance as well as building new stock. On the Midland at this period, comparing the half-yearly return of wagons repaired with the total stock, it seems that on average a wagon was seen in the works once every nine months. But not all these repairs were done at Derby or Bromsgrove; the Midland had an extensive network of Wagon Repair Outstations, at major traffic locations. What I don't know is the balance between Derby and these outstations. How was this organised on the Great Western?

[corneliuslundie]

Not sure but bat this time was the GWR still also building wagons at other works? Saltley closed in 1874 but were there others originating with absorbed companies? If so this would change the numbers for Swindon.

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

Not sure but bat this time was the GWR still also building wagons at other works? Saltley closed in 1874 but were there others originating with absorbed companies? If so this would change the numbers for Swindon.

 

Saltney was the Carriage & Wagon Works for the Shrewsbury & Chester, which passed to the Great Western in 1854 along with the Shrewsbury & Birmingham, which contributed its works at Wolverhampton which were to become the chief centre for standard gauge locomotive building. I gather the Oxford, Worcester and Wolverhampton's works were at Worcester, these passed to the Great Western on the absorption of the West Midland Railway in 1863. As I understand it, both these works, together with a works at Paddington, built wagons up to the opening of the Swindon Carriage & Wagon Works in the early 1870s. Saltney and Worcester did not close but continued for many years as wagon repair outstations.

 

The next really big amalgamation was with the Bristol & Exeter, South Devon, and West Cornwall in 1876. These must have had some works? But they would surely have gone the way of Saltney and Worcester, becoming, by the late 19th century, and certainly by the abolition of the broad gauge, wagon repair outstations?

 

One other point is that the lot series covered all wagon building; later lots built at Saltney were to lots in the same series as those at Worcester and in due course Swindon. 

 

[Ref. T. Wood, Saltney Carriage and Wagon Works (GWSG / The Wider View, 2007).]

[KeithMacdonald]

There's some fascinating pictures of the Carriage & Wagon Works in the GWR Steam Picture Library.

https://www.steampicturelibrary.com/swindon-works/carriage-wagon-works/

 

Even one of the broad gauge wagon dump

https://www.steampicturelibrary.com/swindon-works/swindon-works-broad-gauge-wagon-dump-1892-5680083.html

[corneliuslundie]

Agreed that Saltney didn't actually close in 1874, merely stopped building new wagons. My source is the same as yours.

But it does sound as though the other works the company had taken over probably also stopped building new wagons at about the same time. I think the South Devon Railway's would have been at Newtown Abbott, but that is surmise so I am open to correction. The Bristol & Exeter I don't know (but ought to).

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

What I don't have is any comparative date for Earlestown. LNWR Wagons can be frustratingly vague about quantities built. In general, though, a good place to start is the annual returns to the Board of Trade, which give quantities of wagons roughly sorted by type (cattle, open goods, covered goods, coal & coke, timber) so one can at least see how the totals change from year to year, which tells you about additions to stock but renewals are hidden from sight. The larger companies generally built their own wagons but many of the middling-sized and smaller companies bought additions to stock from the trade, using their own works for renewals and repairs. This was the situation on the Midland before 1877 - Metropolitan, Brown Marshalls, and Gloucester must have been weeping when they heard Clayton had moved from Swindon to Derby. 

[martinT]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

...  The Bristol & Exeter I don't know (but ought to).

Jonathan

Well, the B&ER opened a carriage workshop in 1849 in Bridgwater (see https://bridgwater-tc.gov.uk/history/19th-century/advent-of-the-railway/  ) but I've failed to find ascertain whether wagons were built there or elsewhere. I've had a quick scan thro' McDermot but couldn't find anything.

Martin