Ex-big four coaches on the Western Region in the early 60s

[bécasse]

I suspect that one of the reasons that the use of ex-LMS (or BR-built LMS-design) stock on the Western Region was so commonplace was that the doors would slam shut (as they would on SR and LNER designed stock) whereas they wouldn't on GWR designed vehicles, staff would have to go down the train at each stop turning handles to ensure that the doors were shut (even on the BR-built Hawkesworth coaches).

 

Railwaymen had a habit of finding the easiest (safe) way to do a job and, if there were plenty of "LMS" vehicles sitting in West Country carriage sidings during the week, making good use of them was one way of making the job easier.

[The Stationmaster]

Don't forget that LMS coaches were particularly useful in WR terro itory because the gangwayed vehicles - like Western stock - used Standard Gangways, not Pullman Gangways.  Some influx of 'foreign' vehicles was a result of Regional boundary changes = at rticularly Southern vehicles in the south west but soem ex LMS vehicles were also taken over due to the 1950s boundary changes and then, later, the abolition of Penetrating Lines which would have also caused stock to come under WR control but quite likely without renumbering.

 

And once any Region had got its hands on vehicles it duly used them wherever it pleased/needed them so they moved around to some extent.

[Jollibob]

The Culm Valley Railway between Tiverton Junction and Hemyock is a good example. In British Railway days they were using two ex-Barry Railway coaches and these got replaced by two ex-LNER coaches that were specifically transferred for use on this line. A quick look online and I did find a colour image of one of the coaches, I couldn't quite make out the number but I could see the 'E' prefix I  place.

 

Rob.

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, Jollibob said:

The Culm Valley Railway between Tiverton Junction and Hemyock is a good example. In British Railway days they were using two ex-Barry Railway coaches and these got replaced by two ex-LNER coaches that were specifically transferred for use on this line. A quick look online and I did find a colour image of one of the coaches, I couldn't quite make out the number but I could see the 'E' prefix I  place.

 

Rob.

 

BR built though. A pair of Thompson D340 Brake Thirds.

 

This brake coach had four compartments and two pairs of luggage doors. Two of the 1951 batch, nos. 87245/70 were transferred in 1962 to the Hemyock branch of the Western Region to replace gas-lit ex-Barry Railway coaches. Their short wheelbase made them ideal for this task.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/carriage/e10k/

 

 

What people have got to remember is by the 1960s most of the LMS coaches were close to withdrawal anyway as they had been replaced by DMUs, EMUs and BR MK1 coaches. As well as those deemed surplus due to closures. I doubt the LMR missed them.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

On 27/03/2023 at 21:45, rodent279 said:

Would that also have been the case pre-1948, and pre-war?

And would they have been whole trains of (LN)ER stock, or just portions?

 

It was the case for 'normal timetable' cross-country trains pre-1948, pre-war, and pre-grouping.  My (in)famous great-uncle Ted, family legend, came out of the Army after WW1 having trained as a cook at Aldershot and was taken on by the GW as a restaurant car steward on the 'Port to Port Express', Barry-South Shields via Banbury and the GCR, Sheffield, York, and Newcastle, a 'double home' job for the catering staff, who stayed overnight in 'Shields and worked back with the GW train the following day.  A reciprocal NER train worked to Barry, stock overnight at Canton.  The train's successor survived into my time on the railways in the 70s as the 08.35 Cardiff-Newcastle, which still did a full English breakfast and silver service lunch and high tea.  The LBSCR was similarly invovled in the through Cardiff-Brighton trains.

 

The OP was asking about stock allocated to the WR early 60s, though, a different thing altogether.  Inter-regional trains still ran to similar reciprocal arrangements, and presumably WR allocated LMS and Southern designs could be seen in the WR-originating sets of such trains. 

 

When the WR absorbed the Swansea end of the ex-LNWR Central Wales line in the early 60s, resulting in the closure of Paxton Street shed and xfer of it's locos to Landore and Neath Cour Sart, presumably the passenger stock was xfer to Malefant, and worked over West Wales routes  as well as it's original stomping-ground on the Central Wales. 

[rodent279]

Sorry to stray OT again-mention is made of the WR using "foreign" stock on internal services during the week/weekend layover before it returned home-would the GWR have done the same with say LMS or LNER stock that was laying over?

[Compound2632]

On 28/03/2023 at 19:45, Wickham Green too said:

the 'toplight' brake trailing the earlier train has a rather North Western look to it !

 

Yes indeed! I think it's a 57 ft brake composite, but which of several diagrams I wouldn't like to say. Built 1913/14 with last examples going in 1957/8.

[The Stationmaster]

On 29/03/2023 at 16:16, The Johnster said:

 

It was the case for 'normal timetable' cross-country trains pre-1948, pre-war, and pre-grouping.  My (in)famous great-uncle Ted, family legend, came out of the Army after WW1 having trained as a cook at Aldershot and was taken on by the GW as a restaurant car steward on the 'Port to Port Express', Barry-South Shields via Banbury and the GCR, Sheffield, York, and Newcastle, a 'double home' job for the catering staff, who stayed overnight in 'Shields and worked back with the GW train the following day.  A reciprocal NER train worked to Barry, stock overnight at Canton.  The train's successor survived into my time on the railways in the 70s as the 08.35 Cardiff-Newcastle, which still did a full English breakfast and silver service lunch and high tea.  The LBSCR was similarly invovled in the through Cardiff-Brighton trains.

 

The OP was asking about stock allocated to the WR early 60s, though, a different thing altogether.  Inter-regional trains still ran to similar reciprocal arrangements, and presumably WR allocated LMS and Southern designs could be seen in the WR-originating sets of such trains. 

 

When the WR absorbed the Swansea end of the ex-LNWR Central Wales line in the early 60s, resulting in the closure of Paxton Street shed and xfer of it's locos to Landore and Neath Cour Sart, presumably the passenger stock was xfer to Malefant, and worked over West Wales routes  as well as it's original stomping-ground on the Central Wales. 

BTW the WR took over the entire Central Wales Line  - both ends of it lay in WR territory.  It's not shown in the 1950 list of transfers but as it was south west of the new boundary line between the former LMS lines and those transferred to the WR it no doubt changed in that year.  The shed code changed to a WR code from the national 1950 boundary transfer date; it closed in August 1959; Victoria station closed 5 years later.   A former boss of mine, who had originally been a GWR Apprentice Marine Engineer then a Marine Engineer came ashore in WR days and was at one time the Shedmaster there.

 

The Swansea Victoria (Paxton Street) big Fowler tanks went to Landore while the 8Fs mainly went to either Llanelly (as it was then called by BR) or Salop  The ex MR Jockos seem to have most likely gone for scrap or were returned to the LMR. (they might possibly have gone to East Dock which would have been the logical place to send them but they can't have been there for long).  The Fowler Jockos definitely went back to the LMR according to Longworth.  According to Longworth neither of these two Jocko classes remained in the Swansea area by 1960  I can't trace anything going to Court Sart - which in any case would have been rather out of thh way for both Swansea Docks and Central Wales Line workings.