PhilM Posted July 5, 2010 Share Posted July 5, 2010 Pete I have seen a modern aerial of a location exactly as you describe - but I cant find it at present so instead try a Bing or Google search of Vernon part of LA eg around S Soto Street and E 45th St. I cant get the links to work properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 I dunno why but I have been unable to zoom in properly on Google Earth lately - I'm always too far away to see anything of detail. I'll try again. Nice avatar btw! Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 5, 2010 Author Share Posted July 5, 2010 This probably come under "Prototypes that look most like Models Dept." San Jose:http://www.flickr.co...fan/2332441156/ This is evocative, same photographer LA:http://www.flickr.com/photos/christopher-walker/4026279981/in/set-72157622144035286/ Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Dear Pete, I don't ever think you got your "Lefthand turnout off mainline to veer right" link, here's one south of New York Cross Harbor's 1st Ave Yard in Brooklyn, NYC. http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=brooklyn,+nyc,+usa&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=46.107152,75.146484&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Brooklyn,+Kings,+New+York,+United+States&ll=40.648091,-74.02133&spn=0.001207,0.002293&t=h&z=19 (Alternatively, use either Google Maps, Google Earth, or Bing maps to navigate to the corner of 1st Ave and 54th St in Brooklyn, NYC, just to the West/NW of the Lutheran Medical Centre/Cavalry Hospital) The kind of "convoluted trackage" you are looking for, typical of a _Modeller's_Switching_Puzzle_, (Ahem, Timesaver, Ahem!), is actually not as common in 2000 as it was back in the 1960s - 80s. In the earlier era, larger "systems" spun off and in some cases physically truncated sub-divisions, industrial areas, and other "not profitable for the big guys" parts. These were often picked up by smaller shortlines, and operated "as required". In some cases, the "spun off" trackage formed quite odd little knots, which is what many modellers now consider "typical". However, go looking for such knots-of-trackage today, and you'll be hard pressed. Anything built by the current circa 1990 - 2010 "Big Boys" (UP, BNSF, CSX) will be streamlined for efficient operation, that (generally) means simple, straight-ahead track arrangements. (Funnily enough, this means that the traditional Inglenook, re-interpreted with an eye towards the 1980-2010 era prototype, is actually _More_ "prototypical" than the oft-quoted "gotta have a run-around" Timesaver). However, the "knots" can still be found where older track still exists. This is why the Carfloat "pocket terminals" of Brooklyn and NYC, the switching trackage along Santa Ana St and Olive Ave in Anaheim, CA W Santa Ana St, Anaheim, CA 92805 http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=W%20Santa%20Ana%20St%2C%20Anaheim%2C%20CA%2092805&encType=1 (For laughs, follow Olive St South, and where the spur curves gracefully NE, switch into "Birds Eye View". You will find you are right on top of a "Image stitching boundary". Pan north, and the pictures reload with no train in sight. Pan slightly south beyond the turnout, and the pictures reload with a rake of boxcars (???) "suddenly" appearing on the mainline, and a pair of Union Pacific Yellow MK "genset" switchers and a grey "radio remote" (ex GE U2xx) unit shoving cars into the spur... ). and places like the Union Freight Railroad in Boston http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Freight_Railroad (the subject of a kalmbach book by John Pryke, unfortunately nothing really visible current-day via Google Earth or Bing maps), amd the ports around WA state, (I'm thinking of Tacoma, Portland, Seattle, and the ex MILW carfloat ops of the NW, currently operated by PS&P, BNSF, and interesting object lessons in "Remote Control Switcher" ops http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=tacoma,+wa,+usa&sll=40.647719,-74.020922&sspn=0.004827,0.008175&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Tacoma,+Pierce,+Washington,+United+States&ll=47.246494,-122.408381&spn=0.034552,0.065403&t=h&z=14 Tacoma Waterfront, look each side of the river, along the 509, you'll see at least 3 major yards, with industrial switching branches heading every which-way http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=port+townsend,+wa,+usa&sll=47.246494,-122.408381&sspn=0.034552,0.065403&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Port+Townsend,+Jefferson,+Washington,+United+States&ll=48.104315,-122.780199&spn=0.004249,0.008175&t=h&z=17 Port Townsend, the remains of the carfloat slip and Wye http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=port+of&sll=47.638256,-122.380164&sspn=0.008574,0.016351&ie=UTF8&t=h&radius=0.46&split=1&rq=1&ev=p&hq=port+of&hnear=&ll=47.637446,-122.38025&spn=0.008574,0.016351&z=16 Port of Seattle. Start from this yard, and follow the tracks in all directions to find interesting stuff. NB the spurs coming off the West Side of the yard, heading south. Look between these yards and the waterfront for locate old carfloat slips and associated trackage... http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&cp=46.979183481986404~-123.8844645023346&lvl=18&sty=h&where1=Hoquiam%2C%20WA Hoquiam, WA. North on Levee St to get to Polk Ave, and the YT video of the PS&P switching an "Inglenook", South on Levee to get the PS&P yards and interchange), are prime for "knots of trackage" hunts with the aforementioned 'Net tools... Hope this Helps... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackBlack Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Is there a trackplan for Lance's Diorama?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 Dear Pete, I don't ever think you got your "Lefthand turnout off mainline to veer right" link, here's one south of New York Cross Harbor's 1st Ave Yard in Brooklyn, NYC. http://maps.google.c...ode=&q=brooklyn,+nyc,+usa&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=46.107152,75.146484&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Brooklyn,+Kings,+New+York,+United+States&ll=40.648091,-74.02133&spn=0.001207,0.002293&t=h&z=19 (Alternatively, use either Google Maps, Google Earth, or Bing maps to navigate to the corner of 1st Ave and 54th St in Brooklyn, NYC, just to the West/NW of the Lutheran Medical Centre/Cavalry Hospital) The kind of "convoluted trackage" you are looking for, typical of a _Modeller's_Switching_Puzzle_, (Ahem, Timesaver, Ahem!), Hope this Helps... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Ah, good Prof. Klyzir, many thanks for your contribution. So that particular track arrangement has no name........now if I can just figure out how to lose the "grey" road overlays on Google! I'll have to drive my MIL over next time she needs Italian supplies then I can walk it. Appreciate the other links, too. I realize that nowadays many such street systems are anachronistic but I'm going to be using one (for the hell of it) on a future 0n30 because you can make tighter turns either into or between buildings. Perhaps we should now start on "Gauntlet Track" and other oddities......or maybe not? Again, many thanks! Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Dear Pete, Sounds like you need to get a copy of April 2008 Trains magazine, the feature article covered "modern day street running", and had a really good explantion as to how and why some street trackage which was the "only solution" in the 1800's still survives in revenue service today... BTW, it's not a "knot of trackage", but has anyone mentioned Jack London Square yet? http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?location=Jack%20London%20Square Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS I hope you took advantage of GoogleMaps "StreetView" street-level fucntion to walk around that "left to turn right" trackage in Brooklyn. Very eye opening. Furthur, why not "walk with me" up 1st Ave, past NYCH's 1st Ave Yard, Right turn East onto 41st St, and as you turn Left onto 2nd Ave, note the dual tracks heading thru the corner of Loft Building 20... (and imagine you're looking at it @ 03:00... ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Nice 1st Ave jcn of 50th is good as well, opposing curved spurs with a diamond in the middle of the street. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Nice 1st Ave jcn of 50th is good as well, opposing curved spurs with a diamond in the middle of the street. ] I'm modelling that very section, in Lego! I've not built the track yet, but one of the warehouses and an older version of a loco (its being rebuilt 33.3% wider) can been seen http://www.flickr.co...N00/3999333920/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Awesome Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Isn't it wierd that two guys from the UK know a small section of road in an industrial area of New York! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 LOL Wouldn't claim to know it personally, but via the magic of Google Earth I was looking at the freightcars alongside and spotted it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 The grand prize in the "Prototypes that look most like Models Dept" has to go to the Colorado Railroad Museum. Quite unusual for the US, and to me looks distinctly European, was Detroit Brush Street after it was truncated. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine coast Posted July 6, 2010 Share Posted July 6, 2010 Quite unusual for the US, and to me looks distinctly European, was Detroit Brush Street after it was truncated. Cheers David a good switching puzzle that one !! Regards Trevor... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 Just took a virtual stroll down 1st Avenue, Superb!!! Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 6, 2010 Author Share Posted July 6, 2010 The grand prize in the "Prototypes that look most like Models Dept" has to go to the Colorado Railroad Museum. Quite unusual for the US, and to me looks distinctly European, was Detroit Brush Street after it was truncated. Cheers David Yeah baby! You win with the Museum. That Detroit Brush Street Station would make a fine micro/mini corner layout! Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackBlack Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 Is there a Trackplan for Lance's Diorama?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 7, 2010 Author Share Posted July 7, 2010 Have not seen one, Jack. I have a feeling it is just a short length of elevated track - but I'm not certain. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 That Detroit Brush Street Station would make a fine micro/mini corner layout! That thought had occurred to me too. I'd do the station as a mirror image with the freight siding against the wharf. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted July 7, 2010 Share Posted July 7, 2010 ] I'm modelling that very section, in Lego! I've not built the track yet, but one of the warehouses and an older version of a loco (its being rebuilt 33.3% wider) can been seen http://www.flickr.co...N00/3999333920/ Dear Tim, That's a fantastic Lego Alco S1! How did you do the keynote cabside mural? Admitedly, it's #24/25 but I think you've captured the Alcos beautifully http://www.trainweb....dels/NYCH25.pdf Now, I have to ask, you got the round non-turbocharged stack offset to the left? Love it, just love it... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS what would you need to model the curve thru Loft building 20's corner, on the corner of 41st and 2nd, in Lego? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Just took a virtual stroll down 1st Avenue, Superb!!! Best, Pete. Dear Pete, Just (re)found this youtube of NYNJ (ex-NYCH) SW1500 1133 (ex-UPY, ex-SP) running some boxcars down 1st Ave. Now, look carefully right at the start of the clip, and you'll note a spur diverging to the RIGHT of your screen, via a shorty Diamond Crossing... (remember that "turnout left to turn right" spur we found?) Still working in Dec2009... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS different day, different YT'er, but SW1500 1133 returning North back _up_ 1st Ave, after a run to the Bush Army terminal... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Boucher Posted July 13, 2010 Share Posted July 13, 2010 I realize that nowadays many such street systems are anachronistic but I'm going to be using one (for the hell of it) on a future 0n30 because you can make tighter turns either into or between buildings. Perhaps we should now start on "Gauntlet Track" and other oddities......or maybe not? Again, many thanks! Pete. The "gauntlet track" reference made me think of this... Bellows Falls, VT. There's a truss bridge over a canal where the switch points are on one side of the bridge, there's a gauntlet track over the bridge, and then the frog is on the other side of the bridge! If you don't believe me, here's an image: http://www.rrpicture....aspx?id=530211 Oh, and technically, that's the "mainline" of the Green Mountain RR, not in the middle of some industrial trackage! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 Love that photo! Even the whole landscape looks "cockeyed"! Thanks, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 13, 2010 Author Share Posted July 13, 2010 Dear Pete, Just (re)found this youtube of NYNJ (ex-NYCH) SW1500 1133 (ex-UPY, ex-SP) running some boxcars down 1st Ave. Now, look carefully right at the start of the clip, and you'll note a spur diverging to the RIGHT of your screen, via a shorty Diamond Crossing... (remember that "turnout left to turn right" spur we found?) Still working in Dec2009... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS different day, different YT'er, but SW1500 1133 returning North back _up_ 1st Ave, after a run to the Bush Army terminal... Oh, Maan! Prof., they are classic! In the 1st one you have to admire the typical New York City cojonnes of the white panel truck driver trying to squeeze an overtaking maneuver past the moving train... The 2nd one - I was convinced that the bicyclist got creamed by the car. You really couldn't make this stuff up could you? I've got to spend the day over there! Thank you very much for these links, very enjoyable (keep 'em coming). Best wishes, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Oh, Maan! Prof., they are classic! In the 1st one you have to admire the typical New York City cojonnes of the white panel truck driver trying to squeeze an overtaking maneuver past the moving train... The 2nd one - I was convinced that the bicyclist got creamed by the car. You really couldn't make this stuff up could you? I've got to spend the day over there! Thank you very much for these links, very enjoyable (keep 'em coming). Best wishes, Pete. Dear Pete, If you do spend any time down on the NYCH/NYNJ, please do share pics and suchlike! It was the assistance of a On30 modelling friend from Brooklyn, along with Google Earth and "Street View", that allowed me to in any way confidently model the corner of 41st and 2nd on "Brooklyn"... Also, I don't know if anyone got the link to the location that Phil posted at the top of this page, around Vernon, CA, but try this... http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=34.00343291906503~-118.21937888860702&lvl=17&sty=h&where1=Vernon%2C%20CA http://tinyurl.com/23p8l7x Or Google maps http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=vernon,+ca,+usa&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=46.107152,73.476562&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Vernon,+Los+Angeles,+California,+United+States&t=h&ll=34.003337,-118.219328&spn=0.005007,0.004131&z=17 http://tinyurl.com/33ojyc4 Now, despite what it may look like, (look at various zoom levels, inc "birds eye view" on Bing, or "Street View" on Google), try this... - Start from bottom right, just above the "BING" logo (BING) or (below E 46th St) - Curve Left, crossing E 46th, and contine "S curve" style NE accross S Soto St - check the small yard East of S Soto St, - then proceed NE, crossing E 44th - stop at S Boyle Ave, reverse direction heading West, (You'll be cruising along an industrial spur, look out for any boxcars or hoppers in your way!) - cross S Soto 1/2 way between E 44 and Vernon Ave, and curve South - take the first turnout heading West, and cross Seville Ave - West of Seville Ave, check the small yard, and prepare for a "reverse U turn" East/North/Westbound, crossing Seville Ave/end of E 45th St/Seville Ave. - Once you've dropped your final cars West of Seville Ave/North of 45th St, return to "Seville Ave yard", - head back West Accross Seville Ave, - change direction, and head south/sw accross E 46th St, Seville Ave, and Leonis Blvd. - and end your local "switching turn" at what appears to be a "Team Track" classification yard, on the west side of Seville Ave, on the block bounded by Seville Ave/Fruitland Ave/Pacific Blvd/Leonis Blvd... (check the interleaved "2 turnouts and a diamond crossing" just to the East, in the middle of Seville Ave!) Now, bearing in mind what looks like your "Home Yard"/Classification yard looks to be located 2 blocks West, to the west of Hampton St, with E 49th St nicely intersecting it, how do you get from where you are at Seville St yard, back "home"? It _looks_ like you may be able to travel west on street-trackage along E 46th, but I can't actually see any connecting track between the curved tracks on either side of the Seville St/E 46th St intersection... Anyone wanna go for a "ridealong" with a BNSF Switchcrew on a RailPower genset switcher in this neighbourhood??? http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=vernon,+ca,+usa&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=46.107152,73.476562&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Vernon,+Los+Angeles,+California,+United+States&ll=34.000134,-118.222366&spn=0,0.001121&t=k&z=20&layer=c&cbll=34.000048,-118.222367&panoid=jqn_ZFs6JHIj1KroLpCvVw&cbp=12,213.06,,0,14.18 (Seville Yard, North end, facing South/SW) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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