Glorious NSE Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 - and end your local "switching turn" at what appears to be a "Team Track" classification yard, on the west side of Seville Ave, on the block bounded by Seville Ave/Fruitland Ave/Pacific Blvd/Leonis Blvd... Actually it's even more interesting, that's two small yards next to each other which don't seem to be connected at all! The bit with all the covered hoppers (all seem to be pressure discharge cars for stuff like flour, sugar, corn starch maybe?) is one section, the "team track" bit with the covered platform and the crane looks like it's in use receiving steel sections, possibly connected with the warehouse on site? It's hard to see what happens there on most shots, you can't get close enough with Streetview, but one of the South looking Bing images shows it quite busy, with two flats of steel plate, 4x gondola's (steel sections?), one coil car and a couple of boxcars at the covered platform. But the lead for that bit heads down an alley and crosses Leonis a little way up from the other line, but then at E.46th one line heads West and the other swings East with no connection. So were these facilities for competing railroads back in the day? Check out the corner where Exchange Avenue meets Lorna Vista avenue next to the LAJ loco facility on Google, is that an old Amtrak "heritage fleet" car behind the gate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 14, 2010 Author Share Posted July 14, 2010 Fascinating! I just spent an hour trying to track tracks around Vernon! Lovely! Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Pete, can you email me please <chacmool at lineone dot net> as the PM system says you can't receive them , and I have some info for you Best Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Actually it's even more interesting, that's two small yards next to each other which don't seem to be connected at all! SNIP Check out the corner where Exchange Avenue meets Lorna Vista avenue next to the LAJ loco facility on Google, is that an old Amtrak "heritage fleet" car behind the gate? Dear Team, "A ha!" says I, "That BNSF yard 2 blocks west is NOT the home classification yard for this switching/Industrial district" (Don't appear to be able to get there from here...) Where I got you to stop and reverse at S Boyle Ave, DON'T! If you continue east, you will end up 2-3 blocks east, entering the Classification yard that NSE saw the Horizon car in, and according to Bing, populated with LAJ (Los Angeles Junction) ex-ATSF CF7s and a pair of BNSF gensets. Hmmm, and I just re-discovered a RailPower CF7 "topeka" angle cab kit and matching Athearn F7 mech I had salted away this evening... Happy Industrial Archaeology Researching, and Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 14, 2010 Author Share Posted July 14, 2010 Pete, can you email me please <chacmool at lineone dot net> as the PM system says you can't receive them , and I have some info for you Best Jack On its way, Jack. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 So were these facilities for competing railroads back in the day? The Los Angeles Junction was always what it was, a single railroad, essentially a vehicle for developing the Vernon industrial area. It was taken over at some point by the Santa Fe but kept as an independent subsidiary (it still is, of the BNSF) in order to provide a "neutral switching service". It is a cluster of three main yards (A, B, and C), with smaller pieces of complex trackage as needed to serve individual industries. There are sidings with stashes of Amtrak Heritage cars (nearly all pre-HEP, so maybe not strictly speaking "heritage") all over Southern California for some reason -- at the time of HEP conversion, a lot of the cars deemed not suitable were taken to LA's 8th Street Yard (though many never ran in LA based trains while in service) and possibly auctioned from there. My guess would be that various people saw some sort of an opportunity in the cheap passenger cars, without recognizing the numerous downsides. These would certainly be interesting scenery items on an industrial layout -- I don't think I'd use something as good as a Walthers, though -- I'd go looking for old AHM/Rivarossi, or maybe just have the end of an Athearn bluebox sticking out from someplace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Dear Tim, That's a fantastic Lego Alco S1! How did you do the keynote cabside mural? I'm afraid its photoshopped in, I'm gonna get some stickers printed some time Admitedly, it's #24/25 but I think you've captured the Alcos beautifully http://www.trainweb....dels/NYCH25.pdf Whats the reason you say that? I'd not noticed a difference between 21 and 24/25 Now, I have to ask, you got the round non-turbocharged stack offset to the left? Yup Love it, just love it... Thanks, I'm hoping the rebuild will better, I'll post it here when I'm done. Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS what would you need to model the curve thru Loft building 20's corner, on the corner of 41st and 2nd, in Lego? Some more Lego!. Its in my long term plans for a layout combining various Bush Terminal/BEDT/NHCHRR features. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilM Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 Thanks to the Prof you can see what a great find Vernon is. This seems to be in the same sort of area and is a great short train for a switching layout and this is the team track at Sevill avenue All I had time to find - but I suspect there are plenty more! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilM Posted July 14, 2010 Share Posted July 14, 2010 I couldnt resist another look: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 14, 2010 Author Share Posted July 14, 2010 And now for something completely different Dept. My favourite train watching location in the whole world (outside of 1st Avenue, Brooklyn that is) Flagstaff, Arizona: Watch it on 480P. Anyone want to estimate how long this train was? Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 And now for something completely different Dept. My favourite train watching location in the whole world (outside of 1st Avenue, Brooklyn that is) Flagstaff, Arizona: Watch it on 480P. Anyone want to estimate how long this train was? Best, Pete. Dear Pete, Est 107+ "Units", according to my haven't-been-checked-for-quite-a-few-years-spectacled-eyes... (container stack "cars" can be made up of 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 "units", therefore making "car counting" difficult. This is one reason why trackside defect detectors count in "axles" rather than "cars"), although there's a cut in the video at around 3:00 which may account for at least another 10 "Schneider box" dbl-stack units. 107 "units" X average 60' long = 6420 (not including the extra/missing/unconfirmed cars and the loco consist) or approx 1.2+ miles... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr PS are we too far into "proto research"/"railfanning" territory to still be valid in the "modelling" section? Maybe a bump/transfer to the "OS prototype" section? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 A good railfanning spot? Say no more; http://tinyurl.com/2dt7uop Bayview Junction in Hamilton, Ontario. This place even got written up in Trains about 20, no make that 30 years ago. Still good even though the TH&B does not run there anymore. Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Thanks to the Prof you can see what a great find Vernon is. This seems to be in the same sort of area and is a great short train for a switching layout and this is the team track at Sevill avenue All I had time to find - but I suspect there are plenty more! Dear Phil, The scary thing is, there are "Inglenooks" ahoy thruout the Vernon area, although you may have to look at them with the eyes of a railroader who knows - you can't spot cars for an industry beyond the industry's chain link fence/gate - you can't spot cars accross/blocking roadways - you must obey 'car spot' rules etc etc and thus can get a "Inglenook" out of proto track arrangements with what looks like "too much track available for a 'nook". You can also find "double 'nooks" (try the "paired yard" at Seville, imagine 2 operators operating their own disconnected 'nook, side-by-side on each side of the yard, first to get their train spotted wins... ) very few "timesaver" arrangements, (did anyone spot any dbl-industry-serving switchbacks, with one industry taking the headshunt, and the other taking the spur?) and with the benefit of street view, you can even see how isolating and focusing down hard on what ammounts to a 350' length of proto trackage from this area could make a very engaging, fully-proto, almost foot-for-foot-modelable 3-2-2 'nook in 1200 x 300 or less... "First Mile/Last Mile" railroading, gotta love it... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 15, 2010 Author Share Posted July 15, 2010 Dear Proff, You have more patience than I. This video is perhaps even more impressive - you really need a BNSF timetable to plan your day in Flagstaff! Note the Conrail livery on the westbound. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Dear Proff, You have more patience than I. This video is perhaps even more impressive - you really need a BNSF timetable to plan your day in Flagstaff! Note the Conrail livery on the westbound. Best, Pete. Dear Pete, 1st train, BNSF with lone NS interloper is travelling at approx 1 'unit'/sec, First unit @ 0:20 Last Autorack @ 1:59 ergo, train passing for approx 1:40 = approx 100 seconds = approx 100 'units' x assumed 60'/unit = 6000' or 1.13 miles long... 2nd train, NS/CSX/Conrail powered, est 125 units (there were some empty platform units that may have slipped thru ) x assumed 60'/unit = 7500' or 1.4 miles long... This 'rings a bell' to me as a common length to fit in mainline transcon sidings and suchlike, (125 units, or around 7000-8000' ) Still not as much fun as switching in the street though, for my mind... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 15, 2010 Author Share Posted July 15, 2010 Dear Pete, Still not as much fun as switching in the street though, for my mind... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr True but we have a duty to see both sides of the big picture, er, something anyway. 47 feet long in N? Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 A quick calculation, allowing 47 feet of track in N scale, with approx 2.5 cars per foot. at Microtrains average prices of $19 each in USA (and therefore more in uk), works out at the equivalent of almost £1500 in USA! Just for the cars! [Alf Garnett voice on] "You're MAD! You're all bl**dy MAD!" [Alf Garnett voice off] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 very few "timesaver" arrangements, (did anyone spot any dbl-industry-serving switchbacks, with one industry taking the headshunt, and the other taking the spur?) It's a good track design learning point from this thread I think that they use two switches and a potentially expensive to maintain diamond to keep the two spurs easy to switch rather than use just two switches and make life difficult for themselves. A quick calculation, allowing 47 feet of track in N scale, with approx 2.5 cars per foot. at Microtrains average prices of $19 each in USA (and therefore more in uk), works out at the equivalent of almost £1500 in USA! Just for the cars! [Alf Garnett voice on] "You're MAD! You're all bl**dy MAD!" [Alf Garnett voice off] Ah, but the trick is not to buy it all at once We run some trains of around 40 cars on RS Tower, that works out at a 3 and a half year project at a more reasonable freightcar a month. Things like coal trains are a bit more awkward in that regard admittedly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted July 15, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2010 Those US locos certainly earn their keep. I wonder what the average annual mileage is for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Pete, a few tracks in a (relatively) small space http://www.shorpy.com/node/8516?size=_original for you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted July 15, 2010 Author Share Posted July 15, 2010 Jack, Beautiful pic lovely track layout - steel laying around everywhere. I wonder how much all those guys were paid? Tip: View full size - a nice hinged point appears on the right. Nice frog and mini tt too! One for the Prof. (though not enough road.....). Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I was rather intrigued by the track middle left, with the wheelstops, and the lattice mast supporting a cable growing up through the middle of it before the wheelstops. Presumably it was no longer in use? There are some great old photos, with superb detail on Shorpy - a wonderful historical site, that shows just how good some of the old cameras and lenses were back then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 The Los Angeles Junction was always what it was, a single railroad, essentially a vehicle for developing the Vernon industrial area. It was taken over at some point by the Santa Fe but kept as an independent subsidiary (it still is, of the BNSF) in order to provide a "neutral switching service". It is a cluster of three main yards (A, B, and C), with smaller pieces of complex trackage as needed to serve individual industries. Ta for that and the info on the passenger cars, you're right an old coach sat rusting somewhere would be a nice scenic feature for the area. Been digging a bit on the power, and the things that look like gensets but are in ex-Santa Fe blue and yellow are MK1200G's, LNG powered switchers. Tech info: http://www.users.qwest.net/~kryopak/mk1200G.htm Flickr photo's tagged for the LAJ http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/losangelesjunctionrailway/ There's some references there that some of the track through the area is UP, and the yard between/parrallel with E.Vernon and E. 44th St is set up as if for two parrallel lines (interesting diamond at the West end, and one track connecting to the LAJ yard at the East end and the other to a different line) with an interchange track between them? Far from being bothered about complicated track, this shot gives the impression they're trying to collect it - overlapping turnouts, three ways, diamonds... http://www.flickr.com/photos/conductormike/2565455339/ (did anyone spot any dbl-industry-serving switchbacks,with one industry taking the headshunt, and the other taking the spur?) Ah - just found one that's a switchback which was mentioned in Prof's original walkthrough, although better set up than the typical model railroad use - go to the junction of Seville and E. 45th, and there's a line that wraps 180deg round that junction (creating a very cool parrallelogram shaped warehouse between two tracks at one point!) That horseshoe shaped bit of line is fed from the curved end, so effectively a switchback - BUT - the key is that they use yet another street embedded diamond so that the headshunt isn't from an industry track. I reckon that means that if industries on both legs need switching you have to call in there both on the way to and from the yard on Seville to get the loco the right end. So, on the way to Seville to switch (using the industry names from Google) Dooil, American HiFi, Camino, Bonanza foods, Vernon sales and the location with the silo's receiving covered hoppers (cars are a bit big for cement, any idea's?) - on the way back you'd switch Pep boys and Edris plastics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine coast Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 I was rather intrigued by the track middle left, with the wheelstops, and the lattice mast supporting a cable growing up through the middle of it before the wheelstops. Presumably it was no longer in use? There are some great old photos, with superb detail on Shorpy - a wonderful historical site, that shows just how good some of the old cameras and lenses were back then. Jack, there are allsorts going on there..... those rails with the wheelstops do not appear to be laid on any ties or spiked down... also the tracks either side appear to be a narrower gauge than the "main line"track and spiked to half round ties ....and if you follow them to the right they peter out halfway through forming a crossing and Y point .....most intriguing !!! Regards Trevor .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Travelling crane for the dock on the left? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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